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Still Waiting for Elon's Blog Post on Autopilot Update...

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What I took away from the Autopilot commute video is that Autopilot will sometimes get confused topping a hill, that it works better when following another car, that it may have problems with curves particularly on secondary roads, that it stops more abruptly than a human driver would, and that it gets better over time. And I would add that the driver in that video kept his hands near the wheel and was consistently engaged and attentive to driving throughout.

So that I won't get killed by the car, tell me what I missed?

You should expect that at any time the lane steer will drive you into any other lane. The only way to safely prevent that is to keep your hands on the wheel and prevent any sudden torque on the wheel.

You should also never drive like he did with your foot away from the brake and accelerator because the car will occasionally slow or brake hard due to problems with the system.

You are obviously a good guy who has done his honest research. I would love to hear your thoughts on AP once you have the care for a month or two. I think you will see the concerns I am raising.

The thing that is correct is that it does get better with time.
 
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Elon is right that AP will be even safer. It's hard for it to get in any collisions if nobody bothers to use it anymore...
"Joke" aside, I'd love to see the AP mileage stats. They get disseminated from time to time. I think Elon said 1.5M miles a day currently, but obviously he could have said anything. Does anyone know whether this is shown on the Hawthorne dashboard or at the factory somewhere?

It would be an interesting experiment to show AP miles per vehicle over time and compare that against firmware version, media-driven Autopilot coverage (both negative and positive), etc. Maybe I'll email Tesla and see if they'll just send me their database. :rolleyes:
 
FWIW, during my walkthrough I did get some instruction on AP, though maybe I was a bit more inquisitive than others. A shortened paraphrasing of the instruction:
"You engage AP [by doing this]. When you see the grey icons at the top, you can engage AP - but that doesn't mean it's the right time to do so. AP is great for highway driving, just be aware that it can only see 30-50 feet in front or behind very well, so you need to be alert. For instance, you wouldn't want to change lanes in front of a car that is going much faster than you - AP may not see it. Besides, that's something you wouldn't do even if you weren't using AP right? While you can engage AP on city streets or other roads it's not recommended. It does not react to traffic signs or lights. While I think it has the technical capability to do fine in these cases, my recommendation is to stick with highway use only."

Obviously that doesn't address every possible case of when AP may be lacking, but it definitely lets you know that you can't turn on AP and go to sleep. They also let me know only to use it on the highway and implicitly stated why they think this is the safest practice.

In terms of my own research, I was so excited waiting for the car that I happily watched every instruction video and read all the documentation on the car I could find. Looking at the various delivery update threads, I'm not the only one that was passing time that way. There are so many products that have cool features or simple ways to troubleshoot problems if you take a little time to learn about your purchase. It's always a little funny when my wife asks me how I know about x or y feature on stuff in the house and I tell her, "It says in the manual. That's why I like to read them."
 
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Has nobody noticed that the AP display on the IC *literally* shows you the confidence level of the Autopilot system?

Obviously, we're all watching the road conditions like we should be. Perhaps it is because I am also a speedometer checker that my glances downward are perhaps more frequent but I can count on one hand (the one not holding the wheel of course) the number of times that AP has bailed without me anticipating it. It actually might literally be one time. I'm fuzzy on memory from a year ago when I was feeling the system out; I would put it into situations where it might bail to find the edge cases, but those fall into the "anticipating it" camp, really.

The lane marking lines fade in and out based on what the car believes them to be. In addition, the lines extend up to the forward maximum of observation. When you crest a hill, the lines quickly recede towards your cars avatar on the screen and that's when it seeks left/right.

If there is a car in front of you, yep, the lines extend only to that other car.

One of our resident hackers had a video up where there was even more information about what AP was using for decisions, I'd like to see more of that available to the driver; perhaps like the NAV automatically swaps in, this AP data could swap in on the other side? I dunno, whatever; I don't do UX.

I am one of those naughty ninnies that doesn't keep their hands *on* the wheel. I am also one that started out with my hands on the wheel (because the screen told me for one, and because early on I didn't trust AP as far as I could throw it) but eventually moved off because the nags would come up regardless of my hand being there or not. I have small girly hands though, so that might play into it.

Every single time I anticipate AP having confidence issues, it is because I am watching the road (which AP allows me to do more completely), see how things are changing and when I glance down the AP feedback on the screen is impressively accurate about where it is missing data. Sometimes it powers through regardless of my now driving-level grip on the wheel.

Most recently, I've found a comfortable in-between position where my fingers are on the left side of the wheel in something of a teepee shape but I'm not going to tell anyone how they should drive their cars.
 
Has nobody noticed that the AP display on the IC *literally* shows you the confidence level of the Autopilot system?
To help get a handle on what AP senses I keep tabs on the display even while AP is off. Recently I noticed the lines on the display flickering while driving on a main road near me, which I couldn't understand because it was freshly resurfaced with a newly painted high-contrast lane line. Then I realized the white lines that run along the side of the road hadn't yet been painted on the new blacktop. Clearly, AP perceives the world very differently than we do.
 
You should expect that at any time the lane steer will drive you into any other lane. The only way to safely prevent that is to keep your hands on the wheel and prevent any sudden torque on the wheel.

You should also never drive like he did with your foot away from the brake and accelerator because the car will occasionally slow or brake hard due to problems with the system.

You are obviously a good guy who has done his honest research. I would love to hear your thoughts on AP once you have the care for a month or two. I think you will see the concerns I am raising.

The thing that is correct is that it does get better with time.

I appreciate your warnings, and although it's not in the video, I've seen the sudden swerve comment on the Tesla forums. I drive with my hands hanging at 10 and 2 and I don't intend to change that with the Tesla. My car gets delivered on the 26th. There is a chance that I will never drive AP with the 7.1 firmware, so my experience may be very different from yours.
 
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I appreciate your warnings, and although it's not in the video, I've seen the sudden swerve comment on the Tesla forums. I drive with my hands hanging at 10 and 2 and I don't intend to change that with the Tesla. My car gets delivered on the 26th. There is a chance that I will never drive AP with the 7.1 firmware, so my experience may be very different from yours.

This is off-topic and goes against me *just* saying "I'm not going to tell anyone how they should drive their cars" but even though we were taught 10 and 2 growing up, the advent of airbags has made it such that moving down to 9 and 3 is a bit safer from an "I enjoy not having airbag expansion induced trauma" standpoint.

Congrats on the upcoming delivery though! I know you're going to love it :D
 
Last night, my friend had fell asleep while auto pilot was engaged around 3am on the freeway, when he had woke about 10 miles from when he recalled he was awake (on the freeway), his car had stopped in the far right lane (not shoulder). He wasn't sure if the car had moved itself to the right or if that was the lane he was currently in. However it did stop in a lane that was for moving traffic and was quiet surprised he didnt wake to an accident or being rear ended by another vehicle.

If I was in his situation, I honestly think the car should make a very louder than normal alarm as the car is performing to slow down. It has so many other safety features I dont find this unreasonable. The alarm in a mild sound goes off when you dont wear your seat belt, when you dont have your hands on the wheel with AP after a certain time or distance driven, the steering wheel vibrates when you cross over lanes with out the signal, etc. I would strongly urge Tesla to update an alarm for this instance. I know a lot of owners would say , well dont fall asleep at the wheel or you should always be alert, but the fact is, there definitely are going to be occasions that were not intentional when owners are too tired or medically they knock out at the wheel. Also to note, the tesla knows the MPH on the road its on. If it knows that the MPH is say 65-70mph, why would it stop in lane with moving traffic, and have the owner just wake up at any time to find himself in a moving lane? There really should be an alarm that sounds off. As an owner I would find this a beneficial feature and not one bit annoying.
 
Last night, my friend had fell asleep while auto pilot was engaged around 3am on the freeway, when he had woke about 10 miles from when he recalled he was awake (on the freeway), his car had stopped in the far right lane (not shoulder). He wasn't sure if the car had moved itself to the right or if that was the lane he was currently in. However it did stop in a lane that was for moving traffic and was quiet surprised he didnt wake to an accident or being rear ended by another vehicle.

If I was in his situation, I honestly think the car should make a very louder than normal alarm as the car is performing to slow down. It has so many other safety features I dont find this unreasonable. The alarm in a mild sound goes off when you dont wear your seat belt, when you dont have your hands on the wheel with AP after a certain time or distance driven, the steering wheel vibrates when you cross over lanes with out the signal, etc. I would strongly urge Tesla to update an alarm for this instance. I know a lot of owners would say , well dont fall asleep at the wheel or you should always be alert, but the fact is, there definitely are going to be occasions that were not intentional when owners are too tired or medically they knock out at the wheel. Also to note, the tesla knows the MPH on the road its on. If it knows that the MPH is say 65-70mph, why would it stop in lane with moving traffic, and have the owner just wake up at any time to find himself in a moving lane? There really should be an alarm that sounds off. As an owner I would find this a beneficial feature and not one bit annoying.

Alternative take: AP saved your friend's life.

Note that AP does not have enough sensors to do anything other than stop in the current lane. With the current configuration, moving to the shoulder could inadvertently drive off a cliff. Changing lanes could cut off and hit another vehicle. Slowly stopping is the only recourse right now.
 
...why would it stop in lane with moving traffic...

This is a first version of Autopilot and it requires human to babysit it.

It tries to accomplish some milestones first such as keep the car dead center in a lane and not flying off down a cliff...

I am not sure with current hardware suite, it can perform automatic lane changing all the way from the left fast lane to right shoulder of a road.
 
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This is a first version of Autopilot and it requires human to babysit it.

It tries to accomplish some milestones first such as keep the car dead center in a lane and not flying off down a cliff...

I am not sure with current hardware suite, it can perform automatic lane changing all the way from the left fast lane to right shoulder of a road.

I get it. But the car knows the speed limit on the Freeway, I think before actually stopping an alarm should sound thats louder than the hands on steering will alert. just saying i dont think its unreasonable to have that feature as an added safety measure so it could prevent being rear ended at a complete stop. Perhaps the alarm would make the driver alert again from what ever state he/she is in.
 
Alternative take: AP saved your friend's life.

Note that AP does not have enough sensors to do anything other than stop in the current lane. With the current configuration, moving to the shoulder could inadvertently drive off a cliff. Changing lanes could cut off and hit another vehicle. Slowly stopping is the only recourse right now.

I'm not complaining that the tesla could have done a better job and yes of course totally realize compared to another car it definitely saved his life, but im just saying that with the what tesla does now, its not unreasonable to have an alarm, maybe something like the alarm sound when pilots get aircraft malfunctions.
 
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I get it. But the car knows the speed limit on the Freeway, I think before actually stopping an alarm should sound thats louder than the hands on steering will alert. just saying i dont think its unreasonable to have that feature as an added safety measure so it could prevent being rear ended at a complete stop. Perhaps the alarm would make the driver alert again from what ever state he/she is in.

I don't know how you'd test which one is safer without endangering a lot of lives :), but I can see how a loud noise could startle you, have you grab a wheel and do something stupid. However, once you're stopped, perhaps starting the horn honking, akin to a car alarm, while flashing all four would work. Especially if the car is in Park by then. Not much stupid stuff you can do if you're not moving.
 
I'm glad I don't have to design software that anticipates every possible human reaction - from being startled awake, to medical conditions...
When in boot camp, I found a wide range of sleeping habits. Some you could nudge awake by shaking the bed. If you banged a knee on this other guy, he would come out in full combat mode. When awake, he was a sweetie, but upon waking - visious. People wake up in unpredictable ways, some gentle and some not so. Now, lets write some code to cover all the possibilities. I'm glad its not my job (anymore)
 
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