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Still waiting for Waypoints!

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Drone Flyer, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. Drone Flyer

    Drone Flyer Member

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    Still waiting Tesla!
    What is the issue? We can set a pinpoint so what's the hold up?
    Even two pinpoints would work for now!
     
  2. Travis Denardo

    Travis Denardo VTHokie195

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    Maybe it will be rolled out with v8.1?
     
  3. Johann Koeber

    Johann Koeber Member

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    I doubt it (just my guess, no insider info here).

    I often do trips with 5-6 stops on the way. It takes some planning to navigate to the neccessary Superchargers. The navigation system would ideally have to know about destination chargers on the way. And know the time spent at each location.

    So to do this well would require some serious programing.
     
  4. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    When Tesla delivered the first navigation software in 2012, they used Garmin/Navigon data and software to perform the navigation functions and paired that with Tesla software for the user interface and Google's map/satellite data for the console maps.

    Since then, navigation system improvements appear to be in Tesla's software - such as the trip planner, which determines the chargers to use and sends new destinations to the Navigon software.

    Trying to add in functionality present in other navigation systems, such as waypoints, route customization, ... - might be too difficult to implement in this structure - which may be why the navigation software is still missing basic features.

    Since FSD is going to use the navigation routing to control where the AP software is driving, it seems highly unlikely Tesla would use the current navigation software with FSD. Not only are their obvious routing problems with the current software, using maps that are typically at least 1-2 years old is a major problem.

    I don't have any inside information - and I don't recall Tesla even hinting about plans to make a major upgrade in the navigation software.

    Though I wouldn't be surprised if they are planning to provide a Navigation 2.0 upgrade that uses up-to-date maps and provides much better routing, along with better utilization of the real-time traffic - which could include adding waypoints and other missing navigation features.
     
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  5. drklain

    drklain Member

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    Tesla has said that FSD will use the high resolution/definition maps developed through fleet learning. I would expect there would be a database update and those get pushed to all cars (at least AP2). What we don't know is if those maps would replace the Navigon map database or just sit inside the AP
     
  6. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Does it make sense that they would run FSD with 3 sets of maps - Navigon's out-of-date offline maps to determine routing, Google's satellite maps to show the roads & traffic on the console display, and a 3rd set of maps to control FSD (which needs enough detail to determine lane locations)?

    Please - stop the insanity!
     
  7. drklain

    drklain Member

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    Yes and no depending on what's in the databases. For example, the navigon database has street names and addresses (as does google's). The high-res FSD database may not have any of that information, only the paths (lanes) where cars can drive.

    The reason the navigon database is there to,begin with is because it isn't dependent on the cell signal. You can be totally cutoff from the network and navigon will still work. Google is totally dependent on internet connectivity.

    Are three different databases optimal? Of course not. Will Tesla be able to merge them in some way? Possibly.
     
  8. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    The strategy of annual updates for the Navigon database is something the other navigation systems have to do because they lack internet connectivity and required DVDs to update the maps.

    Tesla should be able to use up-to-date map data, when the cars are connected, which should be almost all of the time.

    We don't need up-to-date map data for the entire database - except in a few cases when someone is planning a long distance drive, we usually only need the map data (both for navigation and satellite) for the region around the car. It should be possible to cache the map data (navigation, satellite, HD lane locations) for the surrounding area - which would make it available if the car loses connectivity. Though it should also be acceptable for the cars to operate in a degraded navigation mode if connectivity is lost.

    What Tesla did with the navigation software (combining software and data from 3 different sources) made sense in 2012, allowing them to quickly get something out to support the first Model S production cars.

    It's time for Tesla to bring out a better engineered solution...
     
  9. Milkfloat

    Milkfloat Member

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    Navigon data is about 3 months out of date... I have a garmin GPS with lifetime updates that uses the same data. Typically 2 or 4 updates a year... I can tell roughly that they are about 3 months because of new road openings... Wheras the google maps on the main display are maybe 2 weeks old - but they're not used for route planning. (had a couple of cases of new road building rebuilding existing roads... Google would show one route, route planner a totally different one).

    Not sure how Tesla will hold the detailed mapping data required for FSD... I'm guessing it will arrive via LTE - maybe it will download sufficient for the route planned. Peridodic updates will be useless - this will need to be crowdsourced data up to date to be effective (cue sharing partnerships between different manufacturers).
     
  10. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    The Tesla navigation data is supposed to be updated annually - you'll see a message on the console when the map has been updated. Unfortunately, Tesla doesn't provide any way for customers to determine the version of the navigation map database.

    We live in an area with new roads being added every few months, and even when we get the navigation data updated, it already appears to be several months out of date.

    When our car got the last map update (late 2015), I immediately reported to Tesla the problem with the navigation map on our street. The navigation software thinks it takes 3-5 minutes to move a few feet on our street. This was over 15 months ago - and routes to our house still have the same problem.

    If we enter our home address as a destination, the navigation software gets confused, in order to force it to the correct physical location, we have to enter a different address (which is actually located down the block from us). This problem was reported to Tesla in 2015 - and still hasn't been fixed.

    The Google data is updated almost immediately - when new roads are opened, they show up within a day or two on the Google map display.

    The strategy of using annually updated navigation maps is a throwback to systems updated by DVD. For cars connected to the Internet, it should be possible to push updates much more often. And since only the area near the car is typically needed, we really don't need to have the entire navigation map database updated - only the area near the car - or along a trip route.
     
  11. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    No joke, I want to add waypoints to trips as well as be able to see what's at the next exit on the route like Lexus does.
     
  12. minderbinder

    minderbinder Member

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    Here's a waypoint hack - it's not as good as having real waypoint support, but it works if you can plan in advance.

    The hack: Enter each of your waypoints as a separate calendar entry for the day that you're traveling. This isn't as bad as it sounds. I use google maps on my pc to locate my points, and just cut/paste them into my calendar. I also use Evtripplanner to get my batttery consumption, since the car's not going to show the whole trip.

    Then bring up the calendar in the car (assumes you have calendar sync in the app). Tap on your first calendar entry, and the nav will route you. As you approach that point, touch the next one. Bingo: multiple waypoints.

    An example of how I've used this is for trips where I want to take a route that's a little bit longer in time, but much shorter in range. I select one or two waypoints that force the nav to take my route (typically a state highway) rather than the interstate.
     
  13. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    This is actually a great tip and one that another TMC user pointed out to me not too long ago. I would encourage others to use it. But after 2.5 years of ownership, I'm just about done with "workarounds" for Tesla software. It's time for some actual fixes and real features that users want. The list is in their hands, they need but to act. They have done great with a few of the big ones, but there is still some to go.
     
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