Seems to me that California experienced many catastrophic wildfires last year, including San Diego. This was not only damaging to these people, it also damaged the ecology causing mudslides this year. It cost all of us billions of dollars in economic damage. The US suffered a $300B loss last year due to catastrophic weather events. This is not normal. This is happening primarily because every single day for decades humans have put 20-30 million barrels of oil into the atmosphere. If you don't want your house burned to the ground and losing everything you own or even the life of a loved-one, think about being part of the solution, not the problem.
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Still worth getting a Model 3 if Electricity costs more than Gas?
- Thread starter Glamisduner
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That is super off peak (midnight to 5am). It's more in the off peek hours, and way more during peek. In San Diego TOU peak rate (4-9pm) is $0.53 per kWh. Crazy!
$0.23 is not close to the most expensive electricity in the US. Just off the top of my head, I know Kirkwood Meadows (the community around the Ski resort in the Sierras near lake Tahoe) is $0.66 per kWh, and I don't think they have any off peek rates. I'm guessing somewhere is probably more than that.
This is ridiculous. If you are all about saving money, buy the cheapest car you can. Cheap cars are usually very fuel efficient and you will save money on depreciation, insurance, and maintenance.
Buying an EV, PHEV, or even a hybrid is not about saving money - it's about saving the planet. Climate change is real and fossil fueled transportation is the biggest contributor. EVs are the answer to the problem because they take advantage of an ever improving renewable portfolio from you local utility. And what's that about the cost of maintenance? EVs cost much less to maintain over the life of the vehicle (no oil and filter changes, no coolant changes, no tune ups, reduced brake maintenance, no transmission maintenance, etc. etc.).
Tesla may not be for everyone, but we should all be considering which plug-in vehicle best suits our needs, pocketbooks, and lifestyles.
I live in San Diego and have solar with TOU pricing. SDGE is expensive.
I set the car to start charging at 10 PM. That's enough time to fully charge with my 50 amp circuit.
I have a friend with an EV who has a separate meter. This gets him cheaper electricity than TOU's cheapest tier.
Cheers!
I set the car to start charging at 10 PM. That's enough time to fully charge with my 50 amp circuit.
I have a friend with an EV who has a separate meter. This gets him cheaper electricity than TOU's cheapest tier.
Cheers!
Sorry to hear about those high rates. LA/Ventura area, 1 Tesla, all electric home. I tried TOU for a couple of months. The lowest rate was .16 at night. I went back to Tier and tier 1 is .17. T2 is .25. Top rate with TOU was .45 (2-6 PM). You are right,that time of the day still costs the most even if you are not home.
I think I'm doing better on the Tier plan.
roblab
Active Member
Shameless plug: If you think your electric rates are high, do the math. Every solar panel you put on your roof cuts your electric bill. Every panel makes your car cheaper to drive. Start now, and in a half dozen or so years you can brag how you haven't paid $X amount for your power. Panels pay you. I know, hard to see that. Mine paid off in about 5 years, and I don't pay an electric bill now. I think if I lived in a rental, I'd set up panels.
Yeah NC is still more Coal Powered - SCE and SDG&E have to pay for the SONGS Mitsubishi heat exchanger Fiasco which killed 2 Nuclear plants, PG&E is corrupt as their Smart Meter Implementation was designed to INCREASE rates. So I think the 10 - 11 cents / kwh I pay 24/7 here in Buffalo NY (untimed) is a bit high, at least its not california and I can afford 2 electric cars. One other thing - our Utility British National Grid TRIED doing 20 cents/kwh for one month 3 years ago. Absolutely everyone called their congressmen and the local news media wouldn't let the story go for 2 weeks. The month after, the rate was down to 8 cents/kwh 24/7 and its been 10-11/kwh ever since.
People around here apparently don't blindly accept things.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
I went to respond cleverly about "oh well, it's probably because of the clean California power...." unfortunately my research on energy.gov shows California is 25th in the US for renewable energy production and North Carolina is 23rd (1st is best) ! So, I suspect that you are right and legal corruption is the best explanation. Sad.
You should always do the math before making any decisions. As the power industry evolves, it is trying to reduce the impact solar production has on the grid, and to secure their profitability. So we will see more shifts in higher rates during non-solar-production hours, and more Demand Based Metering, and higher Customer Fees (these are like a rental fee).
The best scenario is if you have a TOU plan that is very high from 8am - 6pm, but very low other times. This will accelerate payback.
But in our case, 1/3 the bill is for kWh and they are only .07 day or night. The other 2/3 the bill is customer fees and Demand fees.
It takes about 20 years to pay back a solar array at .07 a kWh.
Here in San Diego, residential, single family home. It looks like the cost of electricity will cost more than my gas car
Not if you periodically charge at SC.
When SuperCharger locations become entertainment destinations I’m sure you’ll do some free charging there.
We have a small 1400sqft house, but we do not have natural gas, so electric water heater etc.
Switch to a solar water heater (heated directly from the sun not from electricity. - the saved energy will bring down your EV costs. (1,400sf is not a small house. Mine is 600sf with 44 PV panels and Solar water heater and Powerwall- being 100% dependent on the grid sucks (I used to work for the power plant). I prefer depending on Musk.
I really wanted a plugin so I can use the carpool lane at work.
Using the carpool lane will surely save you time (or you wouldn’t use it) - and time is more valuable than $$. Put a value on your time and deduct that from your EV costs.
Also what are the real tesla maintenance costs? Telsa model 3 is like $500 per year?
I’ve had my P85D for 2.5 years and haven’t yet taken it in for the recommended annual maintenance check. I simply rotate tires and fill windshield fluid. Skipping the annual checks does not void my warranty. So my real costs for maintenance has been zero. And with one-pedal driving I estimate my first brake job will be at >150k miles.
Not trying to pinch pennies here, but part of the idea of paying more for an electric vehicle is that your supposed to save on fueling.
If you do the things I suggested above, I’m sure you’ll save on fueling. And lastly, if you haven’t already, look into buying some Tesla stock and hold for 10 years. TSLA paid for my P85D! Can’t get lower cost than that.
Not if you periodically charge at SC.
When SuperCharger locations become entertainment destinations I’m sure you’ll do some free charging there.
We have a small 1400sqft house, but we do not have natural gas, so electric water heater etc.
Switch to a solar water heater (heated directly from the sun not from electricity. - the saved energy will bring down your EV costs. (1,400sf is not a small house. Mine is 600sf with 44 PV panels and Solar water heater and Powerwall- being 100% dependent on the grid sucks (I used to work for the power plant). I prefer depending on Musk.
I really wanted a plugin so I can use the carpool lane at work.
Using the carpool lane will surely save you time (or you wouldn’t use it) - and time is more valuable than $$. Put a value on your time and deduct that from your EV costs.
Also what are the real tesla maintenance costs? Telsa model 3 is like $500 per year?
I’ve had my P85D for 2.5 years and haven’t yet taken it in for the recommended annual maintenance check. I simply rotate tires and fill windshield fluid. Skipping the annual checks does not void my warranty. So my real costs for maintenance has been zero. And with one-pedal driving I estimate my first brake job will be at >150k miles.
Not trying to pinch pennies here, but part of the idea of paying more for an electric vehicle is that your supposed to save on fueling.
If you do the things I suggested above, I’m sure you’ll save on fueling. And lastly, if you haven’t already, look into buying some Tesla stock and hold for 10 years. TSLA paid for my P85D! Can’t get lower cost than that.
Actually, it's more like 90+ million barrels/day.
Per Oil: Crude and Petroleum Products - Energy Explained, Your Guide To Understanding Energy - Energy Information Administration world total petroleum consumption in 2015 was 95,362,000 barrels/day. US-only petroleum consumption is 19,631,000 barrels/day.
jackbowers
Jack Bowers
I seem to recall that Tesla's CA Supercharger rate is a flat $0.20 / kWh for Model 3. You could just use the Superchargers like they are gas stations.
You are far too late. I remember at noon in San Diego in the summer when it was like night and it was snowing ashes 1-2" deep.
Houses falling off cliffs into the Pacific, mudslides taking highways and houses. Temperature inversions that kept students indoors, with less than 400' visibility. Death counts in the summer. This was 50 years ago.
Sean Wagner
Member
I'd be interested in a link to your data. Over the last four years, solar additions in CA have been significant, though Texas is the leader in wind power [by far], with about 21GW of capacity. Here's another take, with CA right behind Columbia DC and NY in CO2 emissions per capita in 2015:
Image: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Screen-Shot-2018-01-27-at-8.36.43-AM.png
Per ars technica: The EIA cautions against evaluating these emissions numbers as a direct reflection of how green a state is, though, because the agency only counted energy-related emissions in the state they were created. That doesn't account for exporting energy across state lines. If one state uses only renewables but buys a considerable supply of electricity from a coal plant in a neighboring state, the neighboring state bears the burden for all those emissions.
Source: A 15-year look at how energy changed in the US, state by state
See also:
Top 10 Solar States [2016]
Top 10 Solar States | SEIA
I hope that paints a less bleak picture of your home state! Otherwise, there's always the live update:
California ISO - Today's Renewables
DR61
Member
As far as electricity production, according to this Wikipedia article (referencing EIA data), California in 2016 was 8th nationally in % non-hydro renewable, and 6% including hydro.
List of U.S. states by electricity production from renewable sources - Wikipedia
My own home area of California is considerably higher than the statewide average if hydro is included.
List of U.S. states by electricity production from renewable sources - Wikipedia
My own home area of California is considerably higher than the statewide average if hydro is included.
40-50 years ago, you couldn't even see the 10,000 ft San Gabriel mountains from the L.A. suburban foothills just five miles away because of the smog. So some things have gotten better in the last 50 years as well - per capita efficiency and emissions have gotten a lot better.
Rate here in northeast Massachusetts: $0.251 / kWh 24x365. At that rate at $2.50 / gal for gas. the Model S costs a bit more to operate than my old first-generation 2000 Honda Insight hybrid. But that was a tiny underpowered two-seater, and the Model S is a car.
Gas goes to $3.00, and the balance tips sharply the other way.
Observation: peak oil looks like today, not like that Water World movie. As demand for fossil fuel declines, prices will be stable and oil company profits will slowly erode. But, in the meantime there will be shocks. So, others have pointed out that there are other reasons besides $ / mile to go electric. Mine: I want to hasten peak oil.
Gas goes to $3.00, and the balance tips sharply the other way.
Observation: peak oil looks like today, not like that Water World movie. As demand for fossil fuel declines, prices will be stable and oil company profits will slowly erode. But, in the meantime there will be shocks. So, others have pointed out that there are other reasons besides $ / mile to go electric. Mine: I want to hasten peak oil.
Speak for yourself. For me, it's about not having to stop for gas whenever I least have time to do so.
Jeff Hudson
Lovin the Tesla Life
I'm not sure if it has already been mentioned but depending on how much hot water you use a solar hot water system could save you a lot of money and with a possibly quick payback period.
Paying 6.8 cents per KwH fixed price for 18 months in Texas.
A bit less than 2 cents per mile compared to my Lexus Hybrid - ES300h at about 6.5 cents per mile.
BTW, we also have No state income taxes and housing costs are still $150-$200 per foot for most houses - or $300 per foot for very upscale - and very temperate weather compared to the high tax NE US. Y'all come but not too many people!
A bit less than 2 cents per mile compared to my Lexus Hybrid - ES300h at about 6.5 cents per mile.
BTW, we also have No state income taxes and housing costs are still $150-$200 per foot for most houses - or $300 per foot for very upscale - and very temperate weather compared to the high tax NE US. Y'all come but not too many people!
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