Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[rays427]

Max torque @ zero RPM is where the difference from the 85D and P85D, etc. The larger motors allow the higher torque. This is why the P85D is quicker to 60 than my 505HP 3150lb Z06 Corvette.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

It doesn't actually look like he takes the roll out into consideration. Not 100% sure though.

 

[Andyw2100]

If you bought on "691 motor HP", I sympathize but don't believe you have any legal leverage against Tesla (foreigners another matter).

I don't know about that. There's video of Elon Musk, at the D announcement, talking about the P85D having "half again as much power" as the P85. Turns out it wasn't even close!

I thought the car was more efficient (at highway speeds only after the torque sleep update), the car can parallel park itself now and the car coming on its own was something he talked about as possible one day, not an explicit promise that it was coming 'soon'.

The car being able to drive itself on private property was not a "possibility for the future." That was a promised feature. The charging snake was a possibility.

 

[tezzla]

I thought the car was more efficient (at highway speeds only after the torque sleep update), the car can parallel park itself now and the car coming on its own was something he talked about as possible one day, not an explicit promise that it was coming 'soon'.

It might be more efficient at the speed limit, but @ 75+mph, it's not better than my P85. If they are boasting about better efficiency, then the EPA values should show that (imo).

I just watched the video, he doesn't qualify anything as coming soon, he's talking present tense. Here is the link: Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube (note: video starts at 7:39)

 

[dsm363]

The car being able to drive itself on private property was not a "possibility for the future." That was a promised feature. The charging snake was a possibility.

Possible one day meaning it will come within no explicit time frame. Not even several months was mentioned.

 

[Andyw2100]

4.2 sec is without rollout on the 85D. Only the p85d and p90d have 0-60 times using rollout. So that the 85d does 3.8 to 3.9 using 1 ft rollout is as expected.

The chart is still confusing, and actually wrong in that respect, since the times provided in the chart for the 85D and the 70D are the "without roll out" times, but the note at the bottom of the page indicates that the 0-60 times include roll out. The inaccuracy makes the comparisons between the models inaccurate. Edit: I am mistaken about the above. I just read the note more carefully, and realize that Tesla did say it applies to "Model S Performance." It would still be more straight forward to just show 1 foot rollout times for all the vehicles, but my comment above is inaccurate.

 

[dsm363]

The chart is still confusing, and actually wrong in that respect, since the times provided in the chart for the 85D and the 70D are the "without roll out" times, but the note at the bottom of the page indicates that the 0-60 times include roll out. The inaccuracy makes the comparisons between the models inaccurate.

View attachment 99645

At the bottom is specifically states the rollout only applies to Performance version. If people don't read that small print then it could be confusing.

 

[wk057]

HP for EV's has become similar to CPU Ghz for computers and it just isn't a good measure for the true performance of the machine when you want to push it to its limits

I've seen similar comparisons over the last year when it comes to this argument and I simply can't agree.

Horsepower is horsepower. The car either produces X HP, or it doesn't.

This is in no way similar to processor clock speeds where instructions can and have been optimized over the years to take fewer clock cycles to execute, multiple cores added, thread cores, etc etc, while retaining relatively similar clock speeds. You can't make 1 HP more efficient or more powerful, by definition. 1 HP = ~746W.

The P85D puts out 463 HP. Compare this to the 85D which puts out 417 HP.

<junk-science>
Now just a completely unscientific view would say that the P85D would be about 1.11x more powerful than the 85D. Let's look at the numbers. P85D 0-60 time (no rollout nonsense) is 3.5-3.6 seconds based on my data. The 85D (actually advertised without rollout) is 4.2 seconds. So, 0.6 seconds. 4.2 / 1.11 more power = 3.78s. So, only off by 0.18-0.28s just using a useless comparison based on actual horsepower. Now lets take "motor power". 691 for the P85D, 518 for the 85D. 1.33x more power! Yeah right. So, using the 4.2s time that'd be 3.15s 0-60 without rollout, a full 0.35-0.45s difference from reality.
</junk-science>

So while neither number is an absolute representation of performance, the *actual* power the car can produce is much more telling of real world performance, especially at speed. 40-100 on the P85D vs P85 are so close it's ridiculous. Why? Because the P85D really only has ~45HP more than the P85, not ~275 HP more like the original "motor power" numbers claimed.

I'll bring up the example of Tesla putting the large drive unit in the front and the back. Wow, that'd be almost 1000 HP using the original motor power rating. But guess what? The car wouldn't be much faster, if at all. Actually it'd probably be slower given the added weight? Why? Because the actual horsepower output would be unchanged. Think about that next time the "motor power" numbers seem even the slightest bit relevant.

 

[dsm363]

It might be more efficient at the speed limit, but @ 75+mph, it's not better than my P85. If they are boasting about better efficiency, then the EPA values should show that (imo).

I just watched the video, he doesn't qualify anything as coming soon, he's talking present tense. Here is the link: Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube (note: video starts at 7:39)

He didn't qualify it but the website listed only 'at 65mph' for range before the official EPA numbers came out. He might have been referring to that.

 

[Andyw2100]

Possible one day meaning it will come within no explicit time frame. Not even several months was mentioned.

The entire presentation was given in the present tense--as if everything Musk was speaking about was currently available, and would be available when the car was delivered. There was no way to differentiate the "driving on private property" from the "autopilot features" from "the ability to brake" based on what Musk said during the D announcement.

- - - Updated - - -

At the bottom is specifically states the rollout only applies to Performance version. If people don't read that small print then it could be confusing.

I had edited my post before you pointed that out. (You can check the time-stamp.) Edit: Hmmm...I'm not sure what the time-stamp actually shows, as I can't see what time it shows I edited my post. I actually posted, re-read my attachment, and immediately edited it. You guys will have to take my word on that.

 

[wk057]

It might be more efficient at the speed limit, but @ 75+mph, it's not better than my P85. If they are boasting about better efficiency, then the EPA values should show that (imo).

I just watched the video, he doesn't qualify anything as coming soon, he's talking present tense. Here is the link: Tesla Unveils Dual Motor and Autopilot - YouTube (note: video starts at 7:39)

He didn't qualify it but the website listed only 'at 65mph' for range before the official EPA numbers came out. He might have been referring to that.

The efficiency claim, while prominent during sales and presentations last year, believe it or not I've mostly given them a pass on. The 285 miles at 65 MPH is probably pretty impossible in the P85D, but on the highway it's nearly as efficient as my P85 with the latest updates, so I haven't stuck on this issue.

 

[WestCoastP85D]

This.

People want to position around this mis-step for Tesla. We want Tesla to succeed. I get it -- but we have context here. I remember Q4/14, Tesla needed to reinvigorate the S with the P85D and D-series cars. It is HOW they did it that bothers me. Short term gain.... will remain to see if it is a long term loss. All this is noise as the company fills time before the scalable-product (III) is delivered.

Hypothetically, a conversation that I can see happening back in 2014 with the launch of the D:

1) We position max motor power to get everyone's attention. After all it's true of the raw motors so it's not really a lie. 691 hp will turn some heads.

2) We focus on acceleration (0-60), and compare to hypercars (the P1) to imply overall performance of that magnitude. We focus on D-efficiency and auto-pilot...we need to generate excitement.

3) No reason to share system HP... it will just confuse things.. Let's be ambiguous on when auto-pilot ships... and try to gloss over the torque sleep stuff. We can OTA both of those later and we need the sales now.

Again...this is a wild speculation but seems somewhat likely now.

I don't know about that. There's video of Elon Musk, at the D announcement, talking about the P85D having "half again as much power" as the P85. Turns out it wasn't even close!





The car being able to drive itself on private property was not a "possibility for the future." That was a promised feature. The charging snake was a possibility.

 

[tezzla]

The efficiency claim, while prominent during sales and presentations last year, believe it or not I've mostly given them a pass on. The 285 miles at 65 MPH is probably pretty impossible in the P85D, but on the highway it's nearly as efficient as my P85 with the latest updates, so I haven't stuck on this issue.

Okay, you called me out

Actually, I'm finding the car is still getting better in terms of efficiency, again, 11 months later.

 

[jerry33]

I really don't give a s*** if it is 1 hp or a million.

For the last fifty years advertised HP has been mainly a number that the marketing department puts out based on the most optimistic data. Do people really want to go back to the muscle car era where one car advertised 495 HP and another advertised 500 (and the cars were ugly, but that's another story)?

 

[tezzla]

I really don't give a s*** if it is 1 hp or a million.
I only care how the car performs.
I test drove before I bought the car and it is brilliant.
All this horsepower BS is like comparing the size of your wankers.
Do you get pissed off when you buy axe underarm deodorant and you aren't immediately attacked by swarms of beautiful women?
give me a f****n break.
If that's what you are hung up on, then sell the tesla, go buy a hellcat and then you can hang out at the local sonic and compare the size of you wanker with the other knuckle draggers.

I see this as black & white (since I'm a programmer, I see everything as Boolean):

Tesla said (last year): P85D - 691 hp (0-60 in 3.2) for $125k or 85D - 417 hp (0-60 in 5.2) for $105k (of course I went for the P85D)

If they said: P85D - 463 hp (0-60 in 3.1) or 85D - 417 hp (0-60 in 4.2) (I could have decided based on real numbers)

 

[MuppetOwl]

I see this as black & white (since I'm a programmer, I see everything as Boolean):

Tesla said (last year): P85D - 691 hp (0-60 in 3.2) for $125k or 85D - 417 hp (0-60 in 5.2) for $105k (of course I went for the P85D)

If they said: P85D - 463 hp (0-60 in 3.1) or 85D - 417 hp (0-60 in 4.2) (I could have decided based on real numbers)

P85D - 463 hp (0-60 in 3.5) or 85D - 417 hp (0-60 in 4.2)

Numbers corrected based on 1ft rollout vs no rollout on 85D.

 

[kennybobby]

...hang out at the local sonic and compare the size of you wanker with the other knuckle draggers.

if you're from the Show-Me State, then that's what you do--but Geico...

 

[WestCoastP85D]

So, anyone who feels this is an intentional positioning effort around apparently wrong data is a sonic-hangout knuckle-dragger who should buy a Dodge? Kind of funny, but no.

I really don't give a s*** if it is 1 hp or a million.
I only care how the car performs.
I test drove before I bought the car and it is brilliant.
All this horsepower BS is like comparing the size of your wankers.
Do you get pissed off when you buy axe underarm deodorant and you aren't immediately attacked by swarms of beautiful women?
give me a f****n break.
If that's what you are hung up on, then sell the tesla, go buy a hellcat and then you can hang out at the local sonic and compare the size of you wanker with the other knuckle draggers.

- - - Updated - - -

I see this as black & white (since I'm a programmer, I see everything as Boolean):

Tesla said (last year): P85D - 691 hp (0-60 in 3.2) for $125k or 85D - 417 hp (0-60 in 5.2) for $105k (of course I went for the P85D)

If they said: P85D - 463 hp (0-60 in 3.1) or 85D - 417 hp (0-60 in 4.2) (I could have decided based on real numbers)

THIS ---^ Would I have dropped the additional $20K? Not sure. Would I have purchased a Tesla at all? Not sure. Thats the point.

 

[mkspeedr]

Awesome News!!! Great, I am looking forward to no more posts about people who didn't get their missing horsepower.

 

[dhanson865]

At the bottom is specifically states the rollout only applies to Performance version. If people don't read that small print then it could be confusing.

I'd say it is confusing even if you read the small print. It says Model S Performance... and I read it as Model S performance...

It'd be less confusing if they used a ** or some other marker to show what that footnote applied to.