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Stop whining! Read this before another whine thread!

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after thinking about it, I understand now - the Model 3 is just another toy for wealthy folks, just slightly more affordable than a Model S. Elon's concept of "mass market" is apparently the BMW and up crowd - not the actual mass market of Accord and Camry drivers.

I just don't see this vehicle as moving the needle much until used Model 3s hit the market in 3-4 years.

You're right: this is a car with the BMW 3 series in its sights. It isn't a Camry. You can argue that it doesn't offer some of the bells and whistles a top-end mass market car would do; it is certainly competitive against higher end marques.

I have a 2013 MS right now and indirectly upgraded (country move) from a Volt, which was my first experience of an electric car - and which was a "downgrade" from a German car: for me, the tech was (and is) the thing, and I want to be part of what I perceive to be the future and the solution. (Like you I'm also a bike commuter.)

If the numbers don't add up for you that's really too bad and I hope you do come back to it in the second-hand market: with very little in the way of mechanical wear and continuous software upgrades, second-hand Teslas are very good value.

I will say though that I think your comparison points slightly miss the mark. Yes, I have a dog so fabric seats are difficult for me and I understand the appeal of leather (and as a non-meat eater, I am over the moon about the cruelty-free seating).

However, with no additional features, as a 35K driver, you get:
- Exactly the same UI / UX on the panel, which is so much better than anything else on the market it's hard to describe it. You had me at Google maps, and compare that to literally anything else. And so on. I really believe that not to regard this as the height of at least one type of luxury is maybe to miss the point.
- Exactly the same steering wheel, driving position, center vent, USB charging in the front, cupholders etc.
- 0-60 in under 6 seconds. What that doesn't tell you is that you get this almost silently and it will blow you away every single time
- No vibration. This is a hard one to communicate because every other car most people have ever had vibrates with the engine. An electric car doesn't. The smoothness, even above the quiet, is the thing I wouldn't give up. To use that phrase, it's like butter. I can't tell you what a big deal this is: it is so transformative.
- At-home or at-work charging. It's much cheaper, probably much greener (YMMV) - and who would ever miss the trip to the gas station? Yes it's a few minutes, but that's a few minutes I would rather be doing literally anything else except possibly being on the receiving end of dentistry.
- A beautifully designed car: personally I think much better than the MS or MX. You had me at the windshield. I am "downgrading" because I think it's a nicer-looking car and I don't need the size.
- HOV lane use, probably. (You're in Seattle and I don't know how relevant this is to you; in LA I can't imagine why anyone who can afford it buys a car that doesn't have the HOV decals.) The best parking at the mall or supermarket or hotel, probably, often free.
- Much lower maintenance costs and hassle, probably.

What do you not get?
- A cover for center storage. My Signature Model S does not have this cover: newer Model S' do. YMMV etc. but I haven't missed this other than when water bottles that wouldn't fit in the cupholders slid around. (I bought smaller ones.) The Model 3 also has door pockets, like most other cars, so they've learned from the too-minimal storage options they once had.
- Premium sound. In the Model S, that was an issue as you lost radio options too. You don't seem to in the Model 3. You mentioned you have small children so I'm guessing Metallica at volume 11 is unlikely to be on your list of needs… :)
- USB in the rear - which again, the Model S does not have.
- You would also need to move your seats and side mirrors yourselves, like animals.
- Wood trim and heated leather seats.

Obviously the big one is AutoPilot. But neither does anything else you would be looking at, bar none. If it's like the Model S you will be able to buy this later, though for more. To me, that gives you optionality. In the worst case, compared to what you might have bought, it's a nicer, faster, greener vehicle that does what a Chevy Bolt would have done, without inducing nausea when you look at it, and with the back-up of a rock-solid Supercharger network - with navigation to these built-in, including how long to wait. The few things you don't get are vastly outweighed by the things you do.

A few years down the line, you may wish to get that upgrade. If it seems like it's slightly better cruise control, maybe you have better uses for $8K or $10K or whatever it is. If it seems like this is changing the world, you have that option in your own car, still under warranty, without paying the new car drive-it-off-the-lot depreciation tax all over again. In any other car, even to get something like Apple CarPlay, they make you buy a whole new car. Best case, they make you pay something like $1,000 for a DVD with some newer maps. With a Tesla, the over-the-air software gives you new maps and better UI all the time - free. The hardware for AutoPilot will be there- you'll just need to pay for it as and if. I actually wouldn't be shocked if the battery is also the same in all models - Tesla has done this before. Perhaps a battery expert will correct me but I find it slightly suspicious that Tesla has chosen not to reveal the kWh of the battery packs. That may or may not be the case, but software upgradeability itself is huge.

It's a tough call and especially at the outer edge of affordability maybe it makes sense this go-round to go with what you know. But I am pretty sure that you are very unlikely to regret getting the simple model, and that the things you once thought were deal-breakers fade once you start driving it. The Tesla experience really is better: I hope I am not coming across as too Messianic to be credible.
 
after thinking about it, I understand now - the Model 3 is just another toy for wealthy folks, just slightly more affordable than a Model S. Elon's concept of "mass market" is apparently the BMW and up crowd - not the actual mass market of Accord and Camry drivers.

I just don't see this vehicle as moving the needle much until used Model 3s hit the market in 3-4 years.
I'll just leave this here for discussion:
Average sales price of new cars in the US is $35,000.
 
Very toyish in some respects. 2 taps on the screen to open the glove compartment, when a mechanical push would have done the trick. Even a motorized opening from a manual gesture would be simpler to program. Same for the multi-axis air vents controlled from the screen. I'll have crashed the car before I adjust the setting or was done playing with it. Is a manual adjuster on a vent toooooo much of a visual disturbance to the space ship?

That's all part of the charm of Tesla and Elon Musk. Easter eggs anyone? The car is also about having fun and enjoying the experience. Some people with a lack of sense of humor and childlike joy will struggle with it. They are free to buy another car.
 
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Actually that is whining. The Model 3 is a good car, stop telling people it could be way cheaper and better.

Some people were expecting a miracle vehicle and they didn't get it, so they whine. No reason to give them more incentive to whine, if they think in two years the Model 3 will magically transform into their miracle dream car.

Sure it will improve, but not a lot. And not suddenly after the reservations are done.

The cheaper longer range car with a lot of standard features already exists, it's called Chevy Bolt.

Tesla is going head to head with BMW/Audi/Merc and less so with GM/Honda/Toyota.
 
No this is not whine. I really think that the car is great as it is. But I also know for sure that when the 0.5 mil preorders are fulfilled and Tesla will actually have to start fight for customers, the options will get cheaper and the car will get better the same way the S and X did. They both get better (and cheaper for all the stuff ppl are getting) over time.

Yea it will get better, but just like the Model S, it will happen incrementally. A bit better range, some options will become standard, but other options will follow. The ASP of a Model S didn't really go down over the years, but the car surely became more value for money. But the same goes for the competition, so even in 5 years the Model 3 won't be in the Camry price range.
 

When prices are skewed (and they are exceptionally skewed in new cars) median is a much more representative number. I can't find that number anywhere though, even in articles that list the median income to average sale price. You'd think that would have caught someone's eye.

In any case, like average/median income, the median sales price is likely much lower than the average.
 
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When prices are skewed (and they are exceptionally skewed in new cars) median is a much more representative number. I can't find that number anywhere though, even in articles that list the median income to average sale price. You'd think that would have caught someone's eye.

In any case, like average/median income, the median sales price is likely much lower than the average.
While very true, take a look at the cost breakdown by segment. That allows you to separate out the high cost outliers, like large luxury SUVs and sports cars. Looking at the full size sedan(*) category then, in isolation, the average sales price is ... $35,000.

(*) I haven't seen the Model 3's interior passenger and cargo volumes yet, so I don't know which segment it classifies as, but it has some substantial packaging advantages that might end up landing it a category up than would be the case for a similarly sized ICE.
 
What I like most about the Model 3 is that it has some useful things I value that even the Model S doesn't have:

- door pockets including water bottle storage in all four doors
- pockets behind the front seats
- coat hooks
- flip down rear center armrest with cupholders
- adjustable seatbelt-mechanism for the front seats
- bright, i.e. usable reading lights

The only thing I am waiting for is a white interior. But as my car won't be around until late 2018, according to the shipping estimator, I suppose that option (and possibly some others we don't know about yet) might be around by then.
 
Yes but the 28th was not one of them.

Personally I think he OVER delivered because never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be able to get a 300+ mile model 3.
Why not? Did you miss "cheapest kWh cost in the business" and "very high economy targets"? You knew about 215+ mile $35K, so the 85 miles extra would like be just over 20kWh. And we know the cells cost them $100/kWh or so now. Tesla "charge" you $300-400/kWh. If you arre OK to pay that sort of money, it's super doable.
By the time Model 3 is delivered to Europe, I think there will be competitors at that price point from Asia and Germany.