Stopping on a steep hill

[cubbie]

i recently stopped on a steep hill in Calpe Spain trying to gauge a gap to get through. As soon as I took my foot off the brake to press the excellerator to go forward the cat started to roll back. Then the car just lurched forward into a brick wall. I had no control what’s so ever on the Hill, has anybody come across this problem before. While I am here I will be conducting some more tests but this lurching forward frightens the crap out of me in tight situations. It just needs somebody trying to guide you through a gap when the car lurches forward you could end up killing them.
I would be pleased to hear from anyone with similar experiences
Car Tesla Model X 100D

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Did you verify that hill hold was on?

When I have to stop on a huge hill I simply press the brake to enable hill hold, and then I only have to gently apply power.

Now I'm not completely convinced it's absolutely perfect, but so far it's never failed me.

 

[Tam]

As S4WRXTTCS pointed out, please take a look at your dashboard to verify whether Vehicle Hold icon "H" is displayed or not.

I don't know how to turn it on: May be if it's not on, you just have to push the pedal a little harder. But if it's already on, pushing the pedal then release it would turn Vehicle Hold off.

 

[BrettS]

I certainly haven’t heard of anything like this happening and unfortunately from what you describe it sounds to me like it may have been operator error. You stated that the car stated to roll backwards as you went to apply the accelerator and I’m thinking that to compensate you may have hit the accelerator a bit too hard.

My guess would be what happened is this... the car was parked on the hill and hill hold was engaged. Hill hold will disengage as soon as the accelerator pedal is barely touched. I suspect that either you accidentally bumped the accelerator as you took your foot off the brake or you put your foot on the accelerator and tried to feather it to start the car moving, which disengaged the hill hold. At that point the car can roll backwards... especially if it’s a big hill and you aren’t giving the accelerator much pressure. Once the car was rolling backwards I suspect you may have pressed down on the accelerator and overcompensated causing the car to lurch forward. As we are all well aware Tesla’s have a lot of instant torque and will accelerate quickly and immediately when you hit the pedal. It will respond very differently than an ICE car in the same situation.

I can’t think of any situation where the car would lurch forward on it’s own after being stopped (especially when it’s pointed uphill on a steep hill), but hitting the accelerator will definitely cause it to lurch forward much faster than an ICE car would.

 

[Tevvy]

Yes I press down the brake pedal hard and hill hold comes on

 

[outie]

Do you have creep mode on or off? If it's off it becomes like a manual where it rolls forward/backward on a hill as soon as you let go of the brake. You will need to press on the accelerator to compensate. I can imagine if the hill is very steep it could be an issue to control it precisely if you are not used to it.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I don't know how to turn it on: May be if it's not on, you just have to push the pedal a little harder.

Yup ... "press harder", or "again" - although that's probably a bad idea on a hill!

 

[tkdkenny]

Sorry to hijack, but just a quick question on hill hold: Does it really disengage as soon as the accelerator is applied? That seems a bit counter productive on a steep hill. My old Ford Focus only disengages the hill hold once enough torque to pull away is detected. I would have hoped all hill holds were like that.

EDIT: Decided not to be lazy and look it up in the manual. Looks like it is really that basic. Not a problem if you know it's going to happen... I guess!

 

[WannabeOwner]

IME it isn't the same experience as those "electronic handbrakes". Generally the ones I had in ICE cars were cheap and nasty (as I understood it the Model got some extra Eco-credentials from not having a conventional handbrake - weight saving maybe? - so probably the cheapest device was fitted, probably failed in the lifetime of the car, and thus any Eco advantage was wasted by having to replace it!)

The ones I'm thinking of, in ICE vehicles, needed a fair bit of torque to disengage, and as such "jerked" away once that was achieved. The actual jerk may not have been very big, but it wasn't smooth either. Tesla seems silky-smooth to me, by comparison, but I can't remember what happened last time I did a hill-hold on a steep hill, I'll give it a try next time I'm on one ...

 

[wycolo]

Two Pedal driving: use this in all tricky situations.

NEVER release the brake fully; use motor power to force driving wheels to turn against the brakes.

Thus *you* are in control at all times (up to the limit of adhesion!).
--

 

[BrettS]

Sorry to hijack, but just a quick question on hill hold: Does it really disengage as soon as the accelerator is applied? That seems a bit counter productive on a steep hill. My old Ford Focus only disengages the hill hold once enough torque to pull away is detected. I would have hoped all hill holds were like that.

EDIT: Decided not to be lazy and look it up in the manual. Looks like it is really that basic. Not a problem if you know it's going to happen... I guess!

Yeah, unfortunately it does. A while ago I saw one of those dash cam crash videos on YouTube of a Tesla slowly rolling back at a stoplight into another car. I’m sure little damage was done since it was very low speed, but I was left wondering how someone could let their car roll back like that without noticing... until I nearly did the same thing myself a couple of months later. I was at a red light on a slight incline using the hill hold to keep the car in place and I was absent mindedly tapping my foot on the accelerator pedal. I wasn’t tapping it hard enough to move the car at all, but one of my taps was enough to release the hill hold. Since I was just on a slight incline I didn’t feel the car starting to slowly roll backwards, but luckily I noticed that it was moving and hit the brake before I actually came in contact with the car behind me. Now I make a point to keep my foot away from the accelerator pedal at lights or keep my foot on the brake pedal (probably the safer idea)

 

[RDoc]

The problem, as has been pointed out, is that the brake releases as soon as the accelerator is pressed, often before the motor torque is enough to hold the car.

Two pedal driving is the only current solution, although I think Tesla should change the algorithm.

 

[Terry_B58]

I don't know about the system as I have yet to get a Tesla, but I do hope that there was little or no damage when you hit the brick wall.

 

[Ugliest1]

...although I think Tesla should change the algorithm.

Disagree; that's what the 'creep' choice is for. Although, since I don't use (and hate) creep, I don't actually know how creep would perform on a hill, especially a steep one.

It's like using a standard transmission in an ICE -- it does take some practice and skills to perfect the right amount of accelerator push to generate the right amount of movement depending on the situation. Let's not blame Tesla's algorithm choices every time a few drivers have not developed a particular skill quite yet.

OP: this thread has kind of moved to assuming it's operator error. If that's true, it's too bad you had to find out the hard way on an unusual hill.

[EDIT:] And like @Terry_B58 said, hope the damage was insignificant.

 

[cubbie]

I certainly haven’t heard of anything like this happening and unfortunately from what you describe it sounds to me like it may have been operator error. You stated that the car stated to roll backwards as you went to apply the accelerator and I’m thinking that to compensate you may have hit the accelerator a bit too hard.

My guess would be what happened is this... the car was parked on the hill and hill hold was engaged. Hill hold will disengage as soon as the accelerator pedal is barely touched. I suspect that either you accidentally bumped the accelerator as you took your foot off the brake or you put your foot on the accelerator and tried to feather it to start the car moving, which disengaged the hill hold. At that point the car can roll backwards... especially if it’s a big hill and you aren’t giving the accelerator much pressure. Once the car was rolling backwards I suspect you may have pressed down on the accelerator and overcompensated causing the car to lurch forward. As we are all well aware Tesla’s have a lot of instant torque and will accelerate quickly and immediately when you hit the pedal. It will respond very differently than an ICE car in the same situation.

I can’t think of any situation where the car would lurch forward on it’s own after being stopped (especially when it’s pointed uphill on a steep hill), but hitting the accelerator will definitely cause it to lurch forward much faster than an ICE car would.

Thanks for your reply

 

[Subevo]

I saw that rollback video too and wondered how that could have happened.ive only test driven and due to pickup my new car soon.But my test drive car was in creep mode which is what I'm used to as I previously drove an automatic.i will be extra vigilant when I get my new car just in case.

 

[boywonder]

Why do some owners dislike creep mode so much? Having to use the brake when stopped (when not using hill hold) is a pretty good idea, I think.

It stops your right foot being anywhere near the accelerator pedal when you don't want to be... and the car is more controlled in the event that you get shunted by another car driver that isn't in control of their car in a stopped or traffic situation.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Having to use the brake when stopped (when not using hill hold) is a pretty good idea, I think.

hadn't thought of it like that, but I just engage AP when in bumper-to-bumper shuffling traffic.

 

[12Pack]

Why do some owners dislike creep mode so much? Having to use the brake when stopped (when not using hill hold) is a pretty good idea, I think.

It stops your right foot being anywhere near the accelerator pedal when you don't want to be... and the car is more controlled in the event that you get shunted by another car driver that isn't in control of their car in a stopped or traffic situation.

You are absolutely right from practical perspective, of course. From a somewhat theoretical perspective though, creep is actually a technical shortcoming of an ICE engine with an automatic, that is resolved using an EV. So it does feel like a kluge to have it for an EV, even if it doesn't actually consume much of the battery.

 

[mongo]

Why do some owners dislike creep mode so much? Having to use the brake when stopped (when not using hill hold) is a pretty good idea, I think.

It stops your right foot being anywhere near the accelerator pedal when you don't want to be... and the car is more controlled in the event that you get shunted by another car driver that isn't in control of their car in a stopped or traffic situation.

And it keeps your brake lights on.