Storm Watch failed us again [in MA, Late July 2021]

[holeydonut]

Actually yes that is what I am trying to say as someone that lives in the EXACT same area. 30mph winds and rain is all we are getting, it is not Storm Watch material. Other places where there’re are actual warning and 70mph winds got Storm Watch activated. There is a big difference in weather in New England states 30 miles inland compared to the coast for a nor’easter, which this is.

No, you personally experienced 30 mph winds, and Waffles experienced severe (or ex'treme?') weather that knocked out his power. You don't live at his house. You aren't in EXACTly the same place as him and it's obvious that you two ended up with dramatically different outcomes... so you don't actually live in the EXACT same place.

I get it that you're being useful in giving him an option to take a more pro-active role in manually setting his reserve. But I don't understand why you keep down-playing the issue as if Waffles is at some fault for relying on his resiliency hardware the way it was sold to him. He literally bought these systems to prevent the power-loss outcome. And each and every time his system keeps letting him down.

He's already repeatedly getting a sub-par experience through numerous weather events. And it seems to me like you're taking another dump on him just because you think he misinterpreted the weather report, doesn't understand inland weather dynamics, and didn't read the fine print properly about his Powerwalls.

 

[jhn_]

Are you using a semantic argument around what is "severe weather" vs "extreme weather"? What are you trying to accomplish other than pigeonhole into the most inane level of rationalization that 99% of people despise?

Bad weather is bad weather. If a local Governor is telling people to stay off the roads; and the news is squawking about inclement weather; and there are a bunch of homes getting their power knocked out... the Powerwall 2 ought to start charging under Storm Watch. Waffles doesn't want the Powerwall to read a dictionary ... he wants the Powerwall to be a form of resiliency against power disruptions the way a reasonable homeowner would want the product to work.

If you want an ironclad guarantee to prevent power outages you increase your power reserve and treat the powerwalls like a generator.
If you want to try to get the best out of both worlds, cheap power and some backup, you lower your reserve and try out Storm Watch (which we all agree needs improvement).

But just saying the same thing over and over again, post after post, to anyone that replies with their opinion is not helping anyone keep the lights on.

Just trying to be reasonable.

/done with this thread

 

[jhn_]

No, you personally experienced 30 mph winds, and Waffles experienced severe (or ex'treme?') weather that knocked out his power. You don't live at his house. You aren't in EXACTly the same place as him and it's obvious that you two ended up with dramatically different outcomes... so you don't actually live in the EXACT same place.

I get it that you're being useful in giving him an option to take a more pro-active role in manually setting his reserve. But I don't understand why you keep down-playing the issue as if Waffles is at some fault for relying on his resiliency hardware the way it was sold to him. He literally bought these systems to prevent the power-loss outcome. And each and every time his system keeps letting him down.

He's already repeatedly getting a sub-par experience through numerous weather events. And it seems to me like you're taking another dump on him just because you think he misinterpreted the weather report, doesn't understand inland weather dynamics, and didn't read the fine print properly about his Powerwalls.

I am literally in Marlborough MA all day. So… yeah. I don’t dispute he lost power but from extreme weather it was not. Sometimes a 30mph wind will bring down a line. But trees can also fall on lines on sunny days, so how would you program storm watch?

Tesla is not clear on what triggers Storm Watch.

Some people on the forums have figure out what NWS events it is tied to.

We are trying to help the OP understand that he was not in a geographic area that had those events. Period.

 

[holeydonut]

I am literally in Marlborough MA all day. So… yeah. I don’t dispute he lost power but from extreme weather it was not. Sometimes a 30mph wind will bring down a line. But trees can also fall on lines on sunny days, so how would you program storm watch?

Tesla is not clear on what triggers Storm Watch.

Some people on the forums have figure out what NWS events it is tied to.

We are trying to help the OP understand that he was not in a geographic area that had those events. Period.

No, you're both leaning in to some notion that he spent a lot of money on a system that he apparently doesn't understand. Because you both keep asserting he lives in a geographic region that is not experiencing these severe (or extreme) weather events to warrant the system behaving in the way he expected when he paid his money.

What I can glean from his posts is that every time a big storm hits, he loses power. And it seems he bought Powerwalls because he frequently loses power. But you seem to think it's his fault for not managing his system properly.

When people spend money on Powerwalls, they are looking for an iron clad way to keep the power running. People buy Powerwalls because they do not want a gas generator or to monkey with settings. Powerwalls are sold as this solution. It confounds me that you would think someone spends tens of thousands of dollars on something that isn't an iron clad solution for at least a partial home backup.

It should be Tesla developing a better mechanism to actually enable Storm Watch to fix this on the product side, instead of the customer monkeying with settings solving it on the client side. Bemyax has an example of how calling in to get Storm Watch working may actually be a solution as well. Tesla seems to be able to assign Storm Watch outside of just the zone(s) identified by NWS alerts. Hopefully Waffles can get his area dialed in as well.

 

[Flick75]

It really sounds like storm watch shouldn't solely concentrate on the individuals geographic location, but also take in to account where the power is coming from to feed individuals and what the NWS says about that geographic location.

As an example, if the power plant/substations are located between the OP and 40 miles inland and they're getting knocked out because of high winds/whatever and that's knocking his power out, storm watch should probably be activated.

 

[wjgjr]

No, you're both leaning in to some notion that he spent a lot of money on a system that he apparently doesn't understand. Because you both keep asserting he lives in a geographic region that is not experiencing these severe (or extreme) weather events to warrant the system behaving in the way he expected when he paid his money.

What I can glean from his posts is that every time a big storm hits, he loses power. And it seems he bought Powerwalls because he frequently loses power. But you seem to think it's his fault for not managing his system properly.

When people spend money on Powerwalls, they are looking for an iron clad way to keep the power running. People buy Powerwalls because they do not want a gas generator or to monkey with settings. Powerwalls are sold as this solution. It confounds me that you would think someone spends tens of thousands of dollars on something that isn't an iron clad solution for at least a partial home backup.

It should be Tesla developing a better mechanism to actually enable Storm Watch to fix this on the product side, instead of the customer monkeying with settings solving it on the client side. Bemyax has an example of how calling in to get Storm Watch working may actually be a solution as well. Tesla seems to be able to assign Storm Watch outside of just the zone(s) identified by NWS alerts. Hopefully Waffles can get his area dialed in as well.

The nice thing is that there is an iron-clad solution, which is to set the reserve at or near 100%. If storms that the NWS does not classify as severe are frequently knocking out power, that is the solution. To me, this is not a workaround as this indicates a grid deficiency somewhere. Powerwalls themselves - not Storm Watch - is the solution for that.

 

[holeydonut]

The nice thing is that there is an iron-clad solution, which is to set the reserve at or near 100%. If storms that the NWS does not classify as severe are frequently knocking out power, that is the solution. To me, this is not a workaround as this indicates a grid deficiency somewhere. Powerwalls themselves - not Storm Watch - is the solution for that.

Yes, it is a solution. We both agree it is viable. But your proposal involves taking an active role in screwing with the system settings at certain times. And it also relies on there being sunlight to recharge the batteries up to 100% between the weather forecast and the inclement weather event.

Having the peace of mind without monkey business is literally the one thing that the Powewall re-sellers I spoke all touted as an advantage about Powerwalls. The owner doesn't have to do anything or worry about there being enough sun to recharge the batteries. The resiliency through Powerwalls is an advantage because the system is designed to manage the resiliency for the homeowner as an iron clad solution.

I believe other TMC users have expressed they like Powerwalls for self-consumption and you know I like the TOU shifting. But the first and foremost USP of a Powerwall 2 system is the easy-of-use-resiliency.

 

[wjgjr]

It really sounds like storm watch shouldn't solely concentrate on the individuals geographic location, but also take in to account where the power is coming from to feed individuals and what the NWS says about that geographic location.

As an example, if the power plant/substations are located between the OP and 40 miles inland and they're getting knocked out because of high winds/whatever and that's knocking his power out, storm watch should probably be activated.

This is a very good point, and something that ideally would be taken into consideration in general (even though it seems not to apply in the particular situation in MA, given the relatively low number - under 1% - and relatively spread out nature of the outages in that particular area.) The challenge would be working with utilities to map out the locations and risks involved - we used to have a high risk of outages from storms some 10-15 miles NW of us due to something with the transmission lines in that area, as another example.

 

[wjgjr]

Yes, it is a solution. We both agree it is viable. But your proposal involves taking an active role in screwing with the system settings at certain times. And it also relies on there being sunlight to recharge the batteries up to 100% between the weather forecast and the inclement weather event.

This is literally the one thing that the Powewall re-sellers I spoke all touted as an advantage about Powerwalls. The owner doesn't have to do anything or worry about there being enough sun to recharge the batteries. The resiliency through Powerwalls is an advantage because the system is designed to manage the resiliency for the homeowner as an iron clad solution.

But it does not require an active role - set it to 100% and forget about it, and you will always have backup power.

 

[holeydonut]

But it does not require an active role - set it to 100% and forget about it, and you will always have backup power.

And if someone does this work-around of yours, they can no longer participate in the VPP, use self-consumption, take advantage of TOU, etc. Your solution only addresses the 1 problem and introduces many more. You're missing the forest for the trees.

There is one type of solution that fixes all the known problems and still delivers on all the promises of the Powerwall is for Tesla. And that is some mechanism to allow a homeowner with Powerwalls to identify that their home needs Storm Watch when there are negative events on the horizon. You know, to have the system work as it is intended.

That is what Waffles and jlv1 were posting about. For some reason you're spending a lot of effort defending Tesla by arguing semantics, fine print mumbo jumbo, meteorological observations, messing with settings, and marketing puffery. I hope your neighbors posting issues in this thread can find a way to get added to a pseudo white-list of sorts that allows them to get on Stormwatch if they're in the vicinity of NWS alerts.

 

[Skip Whiffle]

No we were contrite in our replies saying Storm Watch is not perfect, when you seem to want it to be.

But it sounds like you live in an area prone to power outages that Storm Watch alone cannot help with so adjust your power reserve. You can do that today without having to post more threads and cross your fingers that Storm Watch will get perfect soon. I feel your frustration, but also trying to put this in a perspective outside of your own.

Wanting Storm watch to work at all in severe and damaging weather is hardly wanting it to be perfect. And my area is no more prone to power outages than it is prone to being hit by tropical storm Henri or this current nor'easter.

So, at this point, we've had 3 big storms, and Storm Watch hasn't worked for any of them. This is not asking for perfection. This is LITERALLY asking for it to work at all. Asking me to have perspective because it has worked for someone somewhere else is just being ridiculous. If this was a car that I bought (cars are actually cheaper), and I then found out that it won't drive in my area, someone asking me to have some perspective because other people are able to drive their cars elsewhere might clarify just how unhelpful having such perspective is. You obviously do not feel my frustration.

 

[holeydonut]

Wanting Storm watch to work at all in severe and damaging weather is hardly wanting it to be perfect. And my area is no more prone to power outages than it is prone to being hit by tropical storm Henri or this current nor'easter.

So, at this point, we've had 3 big storms, and Storm Watch hasn't worked for any of them. This is not asking for perfection. This is LITERALLY asking for it to work at all. Asking me to have perspective because it has worked for someone somewhere else is just being ridiculous. If this was a car that I bought (cars are actually cheaper), and I then found out that it won't drive in my area, someone asking me to have some perspective because other people are able to drive their cars elsewhere might clarify just how unhelpful having such perspective is. You obviously do not feel my frustration.

Lol, sorry I started referring to you as waffles instead of whiffle. Man I gotta get some lunch instead of posting on TMC...

BTW, if it wasn't lost in the back and forth over the last few pages of this thread... it seems some users here have had some luck getting through to Tesla support to the extent their location (or maybe their specific system?) is whitelisted for getting Storm watch enabled during times it may not qualify purely based on NWS data.

 

[wjgjr]

And if someone does this work-around of yours, they can no longer participate in the VPP, use self-consumption, take advantage of TOU, etc. Your solution only addresses the 1 problem and introduces many more. You're missing the forest for the trees.

There is one type of solution that fixes all the known problems and still delivers on all the promises of the Powerwall is for Tesla. And that is some mechanism to allow a homeowner with Powerwalls to identify that their home needs Storm Watch when there are negative events on the horizon. You know, to have the system work as it is intended.

That is what Waffles and jlv1 were posting about. For some reason you're spending a lot of effort defending Tesla by arguing semantics, fine print mumbo jumbo, meteorological observations, messing with settings, and marketing puffery. I hope your neighbors posting issues in this thread can find a way to get added to a pseudo white-list of sorts that allows them to get on Stormwatch if they're in the vicinity of NWS alerts.

It illustrates the fact that PWs are a finite resources, and we all have to choose how to allocate that energy. I am not missing the forest for the trees, just providing the iron-clad solution you were looking for. Since, as Tesla documents (regardless of marketing) it is intended to only activate during severe weather, it seems it is working as intended, regardless of how you choose to dismiss the arguments.

Beyond that, there seems little point to this specific sub-discussion. As I said some way back, I think constructive criticism of storm watch is welcome - and, indeed necessary - but that starts with acknowledging how it is designed today, including the constraints Tesla is working under, and proposing solutions from there.

 

[holeydonut]

It illustrates the fact that PWs are a finite resources, and we all have to choose how to allocate that energy. I am not missing the forest for the trees, just providing the iron-clad solution you were looking for. Since, as Tesla documents (regardless of marketing) it is intended to only activate during severe weather, it seems it is working as intended, regardless of how you choose to dismiss the arguments.

Beyond that, there seems little point to this specific sub-discussion. As I said some way back, I think constructive criticism of storm watch is welcome - and, indeed necessary - but that starts with acknowledging how it is designed today, including the constraints Tesla is working under, and proposing solutions from there.

I'm not dismissing the argument. I straight up disagree with your gaslighting and semantic rationalizations that Storm Watch is working as intended.

People are posting in this thread with examples of how they set up their systems for 100% backup and had Storm Watch enabled. But forecasted major weather events (severe? extreme?) knocked out their ability to have reliable power to their homes. The system is not working as intended for these examples. Storm Watch may be working for you because you're a walking dictionary. But it is not working as intended for them.

 

[Skip Whiffle]

Lol, sorry I started referring to you as waffles instead of whiffle. Man I gotta get some lunch instead of posting on TMC...

BTW, if it wasn't lost in the back and forth over the last few pages of this thread... it seems some users here have had some luck getting through to Tesla support to the extent their location (or maybe their specific system?) is whitelisted for getting Storm watch enabled during times it may not qualify purely based on NWS data.

Thanks, and no problem on the name.

I actually have written Tesla. I haven't gotten a reply.

It's interesting that the solution that everyone is pushing is something that I did, albeit not successfully. Before Henri, and this time on Monday, I did up my reserve to 100%. However, it was already cloudy and rainy, and the electricity that the panels were generating was feeble to say the least.

 

[wjgjr]

I'm not dismissing the argument. I straight up don't agree with your gaslighting and semantic rationalizations that Storm Watch is working as intended.

People are posting in this thread with examples of how they set up their systems for 100% backup and had Storm Watch enabled. But forecasted major weather events knocked out their ability to have reliable power to their homes. The system is not working as intended for these examples. Storm Watch may be working for you because you're a walking dictionary. But it is not working as intended for them.

It is clearly working as intended in the MA situation (the CA situation with the red flag warning may well be an issue) - Tesla themselves (Storm Watch | Tesla Support) say it is based on NWS, and the evidence says it was - with a user near the coast, in the warning area, getting Storm Watch. This is not some semantic rationalization. This is the documented behavior.

It may not be working as desired, it may not be working as the marketing implied, and there are almost certainly ways it could be significantly improved, but it seems pretty clear it is working as Tesla intended.

 

[holeydonut]

Thanks, and no problem on the name.

I actually have written Tesla. I haven't gotten a reply.

It's interesting that the solution that everyone is pushing is something that I did, albeit not successfully. Before Henri, and this time on Monday, I did up my reserve to 100%. However, it was already cloudy and rainy, and the electricity that the panels were generating was feeble to say the least.

Yeah, that's why wjgjr thinks you should just set the reserve to 100% all the time and un-enroll from the VPP. Basically sit on the electricity during entire seasons since you may not be able to get sunlight to charge your batteries without Storm Watch.

This is a possible solution to your backup issue. It just removes a lot of the benefit to be "green" with self-consumption. And you'd lose any TOU balancing.

Also, his proposal wouldn't work for someone like me in California who needs to cycle the batteries otherwise PG&E would come down with a truck and rip my powerwalls off my wall (maybe sarcasm?)

 

[holeydonut]

It is clearly working ...


It may not be working as desired, it may not be working as the marketing implied, and there are almost certainly ways it could be significantly improved, but it seems pretty clear it is working as Tesla intended.

No, it's not clear at all. If it were clear then you wouldn't be disclaiming the hell out of it.

Maybe you should head over and grab a couple beers with Mr. Whiffle to see how clear it is to him.

 

[wjgjr]

No, it's not clear at all. Maybe you should head over and grab a couple beers with Mr. Whiffle to see how clear it is to him.

So now you are selectively slicing quotes? It is working as intended - it is also not working as this user desired. And, to be clear, I have nothing but sympathy for his discovery that the reality did not live up to the hype.

 

[holeydonut]

So now you are selectively slicing quotes? It is working as intended - it is also not working as this user desired. And, to be clear, I have nothing but sympathy for his discovery that the reality did not live up to the hype.

There are literally people in this thread posting about how they were in a NWS affected area and Storm Watch did not activate for them. That is not the sign of a system working as Tesla intended by your strict constructionist view of whatever "indented" means.

You assume Skip Whiffle wasn't under a NWS advisory, and he thinks he was within the advisory. And he believes that so strongly because he lost power due to the weather events.

But yet somehow this is "clear" to you that the system is working as "intended" through your semantic argument. Why are you pushing your semantic agenda so goddamn hard? Is Tesla's intent to make a system so convoluted that its customers don't actually know what to expect from it? I sure hope not.