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Strange Nav/Routing/Range projection behavior... Anyone else seen this?

lolachampcar

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2012
5,158
2,432
WPB Florida
I took a small trip earlier this week which takes me by two SCs. The trip up was uneventful and I charged at both SCs using the second one about 20 miles from my destination as a destination charger. I drove home yesterday and had some very strange events.

First, I left my destination with 180 rated having consumed 125 rated to get from the first SC to very near my destination on the way up. I was going against the wind but had more than enough margin to make it and knew I could slow down if necessary.

The first strange thing that happened was the intended SC was "greyed out" and would not let me navigate to it nor would it use it in auto routing when I navigated to the Chipolte right next to it. In fact, the software initially had me driving forty miles the other direction back to my "destination" SC then, once I was far enough along the path home, the software routed me to a SC on a parallel road 60 miles away (yep, 120 mile round trip to get some excited electrons). I turned off using SCs in the routing software and decided to head for my target SC which has never been out of service. I had a 10% safety margin (10% remaining when I reached the SC projected).

About half way through the 120 mile trip to the target SC, I got a charge needed at destination error message. I looked down to see that the charge at destination was at -1% having flipped from 11% (had increased from 10% due to drafting). The map based navigation system and energy displays now disagreed on miles to destination (thus the abrupt change in capacity at destination on the energy display).

I knew the map app was correct and continued down the road. The SC was indeed open and functional with two charging when I got there. Fifteen minutes of charge while I got a coffee and a bathroom break and I was on my way for the remaining 60 miles of my trip. No biggee.

My question for those that do more traveling than I is do you see things like this often where SCs are greyed out for no reason and the energy app changes its mind mid trip to disagree with the mapping app? It is worth noting that the SC is about 60 miles from my house and I have used it two or three times this month. Could Tesla be "Greying out" SCs to indicate that you should not be using it for "local SC'ing"? That would seem strange for three visits in a month.

I did call my local Service Center when I first experienced the greyed out SC. As expected, they were unable to provide any information. Knowing the importance of good communication when people are relying on a service while traveling, I would normally construct a support capability that would include local service personnel. People will naturally call those they know before trying to dial blindly into the factory so I would make sure local Service Center people have online access to relevant SuperCharger information. Is there a functional method to have a real time in route discussion with Tesla about the nature of upcoming SuperChargers?

Thanks for the help and feedback.

Bill
 

Johann Koeber

Active Member
May 1, 2012
1,179
3,392
Hersbruck, Germany
This and many other things happen when using the 'beta' navigation system.

I chuckled when I read you implied intent in greying out the SC.

No, its just a faulty software. Usually I can work around it.

Best to use your own judgement when trip planning. Take the suggestions by the car with a grain of salt and you will be fine.

I look forward to a day, when we will get an update to the trip planner and everything will function as we imagine it.
 
Mar 11, 2010
4,515
1,357
Humboldt/Los Altos
I have never seen a greyed out SC
but I did find that the map distance between Folsom and Corning was off by something like 9 miles and I was planning on arriving at 0% until I noticed that nothing was matching up right for the Whr /mi usage I was seeing
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
5,990
6,906
Boise, ID
Lola, you’ve been around long enough, I thought you would have known this long ago. Navigation used to be fine. Then with the “END OF RANGE ANXIETY!!!1!!1!!!” bull&*$#, they broke it with that worthless garbage of the beta trip planner. It is wrong and gives bad advice most of the time. Just disable it, and things will work again. Tesla has been notified many times and acknowledge that it doesn’t work, but they are too prideful about it to admit that by retracting it.
 

RichardL

Member
Oct 6, 2013
630
494
San Diego, California
I have noticed that if you bring up the 'Trip Summary' screen while navigating (I tried that for a long drive, so I could simply watch the miles and percentage go down) the miles to go and percentage do not decline at the same rate as when you have the turn by turn displayed - so it is showing much further to go and hence more electrons needed than actual!

So there is definitely some 'fuzzy math' involved!
 

Tedkidd

Member
Lola, you’ve been around long enough, I thought you would have known this long ago. Navigation used to be fine. Then with the “END OF RANGE ANXIETY!!!1!!1!!!” bull&*$#, they broke it with that worthless garbage of the beta trip planner. It is wrong and gives bad advice most of the time. Just disable it, and things will work again. Tesla has been notified many times and acknowledge that it doesn’t work, but they are too prideful about it to admit that by retracting it.


^^^^ +1

Lots of people complaining since planning software update.
 

lolachampcar

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2012
5,158
2,432
WPB Florida
I know I can depend on my peeps to keep me on the straight and narrow. Thanks for the feedback. I'm sure we will see an update soon :)

Funny thing about the whole process is I had zero anxiety (my normal state) for all but the planning software info.
 

artsci

Sponsor
May 10, 2012
6,256
3,230
Timonium, Maryland
I took a small trip earlier this week which takes me by two SCs. The trip up was uneventful and I charged at both SCs using the second one about 20 miles from my destination as a destination charger. I drove home yesterday and had some very strange events.

First, I left my destination with 180 rated having consumed 125 rated to get from the first SC to very near my destination on the way up. I was going against the wind but had more than enough margin to make it and knew I could slow down if necessary.

The first strange thing that happened was the intended SC was "greyed out" and would not let me navigate to it nor would it use it in auto routing when I navigated to the Chipolte right next to it. In fact, the software initially had me driving forty miles the other direction back to my "destination" SC then, once I was far enough along the path home, the software routed me to a SC on a parallel road 60 miles away (yep, 120 mile round trip to get some excited electrons). I turned off using SCs in the routing software and decided to head for my target SC which has never been out of service. I had a 10% safety margin (10% remaining when I reached the SC projected).

About half way through the 120 mile trip to the target SC, I got a charge needed at destination error message. I looked down to see that the charge at destination was at -1% having flipped from 11% (had increased from 10% due to drafting). The map based navigation system and energy displays now disagreed on miles to destination (thus the abrupt change in capacity at destination on the energy display).

I knew the map app was correct and continued down the road. The SC was indeed open and functional with two charging when I got there. Fifteen minutes of charge while I got a coffee and a bathroom break and I was on my way for the remaining 60 miles of my trip. No biggee.

My question for those that do more traveling than I is do you see things like this often where SCs are greyed out for no reason and the energy app changes its mind mid trip to disagree with the mapping app? It is worth noting that the SC is about 60 miles from my house and I have used it two or three times this month. Could Tesla be "Greying out" SCs to indicate that you should not be using it for "local SC'ing"? That would seem strange for three visits in a month.

I did call my local Service Center when I first experienced the greyed out SC. As expected, they were unable to provide any information. Knowing the importance of good communication when people are relying on a service while traveling, I would normally construct a support capability that would include local service personnel. People will naturally call those they know before trying to dial blindly into the factory so I would make sure local Service Center people have online access to relevant SuperCharger information. Is there a functional method to have a real time in route discussion with Tesla about the nature of upcoming SuperChargers?

Thanks for the help and feedback.

Bill

Just turn off the Trip Planner. It's FUBAR. It's been beta now for nearly a year and is totally screwed up.
 

lolachampcar

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2012
5,158
2,432
WPB Florida
Funny, I stopped by my local service center to look at a bunch of different X colors and one of the guys there said it was junk as well. Sometimes I'm just completely behind the curve. It's a shame the person I talked to during the series of events did not just say "its crap, turn it off".
 

lolachampcar

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2012
5,158
2,432
WPB Florida
I thought that might be it but there were SCs much further away that were bright red while just the one was greyed....... Again, just buggy code.
 

Jtrader

Member
Nov 2, 2015
126
99
KY
I took my first trip ever this weekend and the Nav worked great on the first leg but then became rather annoying. I charged for only 15 minutes at the Indianapolis SC knowing I was going to charge again in Louisville and because there weren't any desirable eating options near the Indy SC. We went down the road about 20 miles then pulled off to get a bite to eat. After eating and getting back on the road, the Nav tried to get me to go back to Indy to charge almost the whole way to Louisville. The Nav asked me to turn around at every exit to head back to Indy to charge. It only corrected itself when it knew that I didn't have enough charge to go back to Indy. It finally then said I could go to Louisville and charge. By then I was less than 20 miles away from the Louisville SC and 90 miles away from the Indy SC.

Even though this was my first trip ever in my new S I still had enough common sense to know that the Nav was wrong. Has anyone else had this experience?
 

jgs

Active Member
Oct 28, 2014
1,581
933
Ann Arbor, Michigan
It's my experience that in general, the navigation system is way too emotionally attached to the route it computed initially, and when it recomputes it tends to just create a patch to get you back on to its original route, even when any fool can see a different rerouting would be better. This is true whether or not Supercharging is involved in the route. Usually, canceling the whole thing and redoing it fixes it, although then of course you lose the accumulated energy history.
 

Jtrader

Member
Nov 2, 2015
126
99
KY
It's my experience that in general, the navigation system is way too emotionally attached to the route it computed initially, and when it recomputes it tends to just create a patch to get you back on to its original route, even when any fool can see a different rerouting would be better. This is true whether or not Supercharging is involved in the route. Usually, canceling the whole thing and redoing it fixes it, although then of course you lose the accumulated energy history.

I cancelled the route several times and started over but it still want to send me back 80 miles to go forward 30 miles.
 

kort677

Banned
Sep 17, 2015
4,801
2,242
florida.
I took my first trip ever this weekend and the Nav worked great on the first leg but then became rather annoying. I charged for only 15 minutes at the Indianapolis SC knowing I was going to charge again in Louisville and because there weren't any desirable eating options near the Indy SC. We went down the road about 20 miles then pulled off to get a bite to eat. After eating and getting back on the road, the Nav tried to get me to go back to Indy to charge almost the whole way to Louisville. The Nav asked me to turn around at every exit to head back to Indy to charge. It only corrected itself when it knew that I didn't have enough charge to go back to Indy. It finally then said I could go to Louisville and charge. By then I was less than 20 miles away from the Louisville SC and 90 miles away from the Indy SC.

Even though this was my first trip ever in my new S I still had enough common sense to know that the Nav was wrong. Has anyone else had this experience?
common sense is the operative comment, sometimes the trip planner gets way too timid and I plan my long road trips so I know when to ignore some of the "insane" routes the trip planner displays.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
5,990
6,906
Boise, ID
I cancelled the route several times and started over but it still want to send me back 80 miles to go forward 30 miles.

That is because there are two separate systems involved here, which you may not realize yet. And people are not helping by referring to either/both as “Nav”. There is Navigation, and there is the pile of garbage that is giving you trouble known as “Beta Trip Planner”, which gives bad advice and can be disabled. I do recommend disabling it.

So here is how they are different. Navigation is just for navigating. It will tell you the route and which turns to take to get to the destination you have picked. The Beta Trip Planner, however, interferes with this by CHANGING YOUR DESTINATION! That is what infuriates me. I will decide where I am trying to go. I want navigation only to tell me how to get there.

First off, here’s how to disable the Beta Trip Planner: In the Controls, go to Apps and then Navigation. There is a checkbox there for the Trip Planner, which you can turn off. It is that function that is trying to tell you where to go to charge.
 

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