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Struggling with my choice of P90D w/FUSC or 100D

Discussion in 'Model S' started by IT Geek, Jan 22, 2017.

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  1. IT Geek

    IT Geek Member

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    After dreaming about getting a MS for several years, 2016 was going to be the year that I finally made that a reality. I had a plan to order in October and take deliver in December on my birthday. I had the specs of the car all planned out too. Deep Blue Metallic, Grey Interior, Pano roof, Auto-Pilot 2, and hopefully 100Kw battery (based on Elon's stated improvement per year). But in the age old words of John Lennon, "Life is what happens when you're making other plans" and instead of taking deliver in December I was only placing an order in December.

    Things on the car had also changed by the time that I got to put in the order. The Free Unlimited Super Charging that was always a part of the mystique of getting a Tesla was going to go away on December 31. So to preserve that I ordered a 90D but purposely pushed out the delivery date in the hopes that the 100D would become available and that I would be able to upgrade like the folks in the queue for the P90D did when the P100D came out.

    Now I live and work in Michigan, and it's a strange thing to try and buy one of these cars in a state that is actively trying to discourage you from doing that. You can't buy one from a store here, you can't test drive one here, heck they won't even let Tesla open a service center here. But I did get to test drive the car three times, once in Cleveland, once in Toledo and once in Cincinnati. The unfortunate part there is that I don't feel like I have a specific Tesla OA that I've been working with long enough to establish any type of relationship. So I can't easily go to them and ask my questions. Which is why I greatly appreciate this forum.

    Now that you've got a little more context, here's my dilemma. My plans for the Tesla were to buy it and drive it a lot. I want to take long road trips and cruise the country. One of my big dreams on the bucket list is to drive "around the country" in one go. To Washington state, California, Florida, Maine and then back home (best I can figure that's about 8800 miles). Having a 100D would be nice for this because for a few big reasons, first I'm all for sometimes taking the road less traveled and getting off the highways and exploring. More range equals more opportunity to do that. Also, the out and back trips from a SC would be easier with more range. For example we don't have any SC's in the UP of Michigan now and so it would be difficult to drive up there w/o significant planning. There's also range degradation and winter that concerns me on a car that I'm planning to keep for several years (have had my current car for 10 years now).

    The 90D on order that will be delivered next month (which has a VIN but is not yet in production) would have the Free unlimited SC but, 100D is so tempting. Unfortunately if I do switch though I'll likely end up at the back of the line again (meaning a March or later delivery) and then I'll also lose the vented white seats, which are an OK substitute for the grey I really wanted. But I really don't think I want solid white seats. Decisions, decisions...

    I'm just stuck right now not sure what to do. Ideally I'd take both...and that's what's odd about this whole thing is that I don't want the 100D upgrade for free, I'll pay for it...gladly it's just unfortunate to be told that I can't get it without giving something else up that I really want too.

    I appreciate the advice from any that managed to read this far. Sorry for the length of the post...but perhaps just typing this all out will be a bit cathartic on its own.
     
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  2. ModelX

    ModelX Active Member

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    Sounds like you would use the supercharging quite a bit! Maybe you should stick with the 90 D and the ventilated seats. You could still take advantage of destination charging for the road less traveled. Remember the roadsters went all over the country without superchargers.
     
  3. Nimpo

    Nimpo Member

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    Same dilemma here.

    Except the price difference for me regarding my 90D order will be of 9600€ (taxes included).

    So for me it is extra 40 miles vs. loosing free SC (I'm a heavy user - more than 20k miles/year, so around 1500€/year which I spare with free SC) + loosing ventilated seats. And for this change I would pay 9600€.

    For me, probably no thanks.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  4. owen.shift

    owen.shift Member

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    Keep the 90D. The 100D is tempting (I'm in the same situation); but I really want FUSC. The peace of mind of not having to worry about what a road trip will cost is just priceless.
     
  5. larmor

    larmor Active Member

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    I would get the 100D, more range is better, more flexibility on a daily basis and on trips.
     
  6. animorph

    animorph Member

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    Although I like the idea of traveling without paying for electricity with FUSC, it is mostly an economic decision. What if Tesla offered FUSC as a $2000 software update in the future? 90D versus 100D will have a bigger impact on where I can go and how easy it will be, both in time and in effort. I was looking forward to the ventilated seats, but they seem to have a pretty minor effect. I've been ready to jump on the 100D ever since I ordered in December, and that's what I did.

    Keep in mind, according to my sales guy, that you have to be 3 weeks away from production to be able to make changes with the $500 fee. You may be beyond that time, or getting close. Talk to your guy to check your options.
     
  7. JRMW

    JRMW Member

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    I agree with keeping the 90 unless you plan on "launching" a lot (which you didn't state).

    You only gain 20 miles going from a 90 to a 100. I don't think that'll meaningfully change your Tesla experience.
    The charging speeds will be similar between the two.

    Driving around the country is typically not a race anyway. If it were you'd fly!
    Thus, you'll have more opportunity to just take your time, again making the 100 not so important.

    Winter range is important, so again I'd look at numbers.
    In our coldest year ever, (temps in the -5 to 15 range) I consistently only achieve 60% of my rated miles in my 60D
    (If I charge to 215 miles, I get about 130 true miles)

    So a 90 will get 294 x 0.6 = 176.4 miles in winter
    A 100 will get 315 x 0.6 = 189. So 12 more cold winter miles.
    Meh.

    Let's look at the other side of your dilemma
    If you do your cross country car in summer (I'm assuming nobody is insane enough to try it in winter) you'll get much better numbers.

    But let's say you do your trip in winter.
    8800 mile trip / 180 miles per charge = about 50 charges.
    1 charge will be less than 90 kWh
    Worst Tesla rate in country is 20 cents per kWh
    50 x 90 x 20 cents = $900. WORST CASE.

    Now let's do optimistic case.
    Summer driving at 65 mph
    8800 mile trip / 294 miles per charge = about 30 charges
    Many Tesla SC rates are 12 to 14 cents per kwh, especially on your proposed route.
    30 x 90 x 14 cents = $378. OPTIMISTIC CASE

    (neither case includes the free 400 kWh of SC access, which will lower your bill by $60-$80)

    real cost will obviously be somewhere in between, but far closer to the Optimistic Case.

    but how often are you REALLY going to drive across the country in your entire life. Once? Twice?

    Put it all together:
    you have to pay more for the 100
    you gain little
    you have to pay a few hundred to drive across country
    most importantly: you lose things on the 100 you have on the 90
    total: keep the 90
     
    • Like x 3
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  8. ScottieLV

    ScottieLV Member

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    We face the same dilemma. We have on order a MX 90D with a range of 257 miles. We plan to tow a travel trailer (on order) across country and around the USA. RANGE is VERY IMPORTANT to us. We called our Delivery Specialist Friday and were told you cannot upgrade (your current order) to a 100D. Keep In mind we have asked for a March delivery date. We have a Vin number assigned at this time. When pulling a trailer is cuts your range in half (or more). So we are talking superchargers that need to be no more than 125 miles apart. Otherwise we have to use destination chargers, etc. The range of the 100D would give us only 15 more miles (approximately) while towing. We decided to keep the free supercharging and go with the 90D. We realize we will never be in a hurry when towing across country, and to make things more complicated, we will need to detach the trailer when charging at many busy superchargers.
     
  9. mblakele

    mblakele radial cross member

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    FUSC sounds very attractive when you're thinking about traveling cross-country. I can see the case for towing, too. But if I ask myself how much FUSC would provide over the 400 kWh annual credit, over my expected ownership of the car, the answer is probably a big fat $0. My most frequent weekend trip is less than 200 miles, no problem for a 90D charged at home to 90%. Then I charge at the destination for the return trip. About twice a year I'll take trips that exceed 300 miles, and then I supercharge. However I still start from home with 90%, so I figure I supercharge less than 300 kWh annually. Longer trips happen in an airplane.

    Sure, someday I might want to do more cross-country driving. But if and when I do that, I think superchargers would be noise compared to hotels, food, and other expenses. Even depreciation on the car is something like $1/mi. Supercharging at 20 cents/kWh should work out to something less than 10 cents/mi, at freeway speeds.

    But do the math on your own driving habits, and see where that takes you.
     
  10. IT Geek

    IT Geek Member

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    Some good points in here... Thanks for the input.

    I realized just now that I erroneously put P90D up top there in the thread title...but I meant 90D. If I was going for the Performance version of the car I could have gotten the P100D and been all set, but the extra $40-$50k just isn't worth it to me.

    The unfortunate thing here in not being able to upgrade to the 100D from the 90D (and keep FUSC) is that I feel like I've been waiting for nothing now. I purposely told the folks at Tesla to hold off till February so that I could be in position to upgrade (and pay the extra to do it) and now to do that I have to lose a "selling feature" of the car.

    I did call my Tesla DS on Friday and left him a VM regarding my car, he has not called me back yet though. Perhaps dealing with a bunch of folks like me in the same position.

    I didn't know there was a cutoff to when I could still make changes (even with paying the $500). I was a bit concerned last week when I saw that they discontinued the vent seats, but I did confirm that I will still be getting those. Unfortunately I didn't get an answer to why they DC'ed those, so hopefully that's not a bad decision to keep them.

    I'll tell you what would make it so much easier to keep the 90D though, would be a statement from Tesla that I could upgrade just the battery on the car at some point in the future (and pay whatever it costs of course) and still keep the FUSC. If I knew I could do that...I'd feel more at ease about keeping the 90D.

    Dang, I'm just so close to getting everything I want...and I'm willing to pay to get it...so it's frustrating to be denied like this so close to delivery.

    Thanks for all the input thus far, I'm likely keeping the 90D to get my car sooner rather than going back to the end of the line and losing the other options that I know I want.
     
    • Informative x 2
  11. Jtedi

    Jtedi New Member

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    IT Geek, I'm in exactly the same boat. Ordered my MX 90D on Dec 31st for a late March delivery (all in expectation of the 100D release) and very much want the 100D upgrade and was told that due to unlimited supercharging and 100D being two features on two separate price book periods, that I would not be able to have both. This goes against good business sense and good customer service and generating goodwill with new customers especially since I'm willing to pay the $500 change fee and the $3000 price upgrade to the 100D! I'm still writing letters/emails up the management chain at Tesla and I suggest other customers in our conundrum voice their concerns and desire about this. Maybe with enough feedback from us, Tesla might augment their policy and let us upgrade to the 100D while keeping FUSC.
     
  12. No2DinosaurFuel

    No2DinosaurFuel Active Member

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    People need to get over trying to upgrade to the 100D with fusc. Look the low cost of the $3K price increase is because they got rid of the FUSC. Otherwise I say the upgrade would cost around $9K when comparing to the 60-75kwh upgrade.
     
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  13. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    You got the wrong 100
    The P100D is rated at 315 miles
    The 100D is rated at 335 miles.

    That's a 41 mile difference between 90D and 100D


    Your SC math really puts things into perspective. Let's use the middle of a Best and worst case and you still only end up paying around 600 bucks for an 8k mile trip.
    That's not bad at all.

    If I were op I'd go with the 100D
     
  14. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    We just went through this decision process last week, after we decided to hold off on a 90D/FUSC and wait for a 100D with no FUSC to replace our P85.

    For us, most of our road trips are 190 miles one way, and the other typical road trip is 290 miles one way - with destination chargers at the destination. For the shorter trips, the 100D should allow us to avoid any superchargers on the trip, and get free charging at the hotel (our P85 requires a supercharger stop each way).

    For the 290 mile trip, we'll likely have to stop to a supercharger each way on the trip, since we'll be driving at highway speeds (75-80 MPH), and could need up to 100 miles of charge each way (40 kwh).

    In 3 out of the 4 years we've owned the P85, we've taken less than 5 of 290 mile trips each year - so we likely would stay under the 400 kwh/year credit, and should avoid charging fees with the new 100D.

    Last year, we took a long road trip (2500 miles). We stayed overnight at a hotel with a supercharger - with the loss of FUSC, that hotel probably lost our business - and we'll instead look for a hotel with a free destination charger. That's an unexpected side effect of the new supercharger fees - businesses with destination chargers may get more activity now than those that allowed Tesla to install superchargers!

    At full highway speeds (75-80 MPH), the practical range for a 100D is not 335 miles - it's likely around 210 miles. After exhausting the overnight charge, the primary benefit of having a 100D is that charging will be a little bit faster, since you can charge longer before ramping down at 80%, slightly reducing charging times. Plus, with the extra range of a 100D, you can more easily make the hop between superchargers that are stretched pretty far apart (with our P85, we had a couple of times when we had to slow down between stops).

    So, how does this all impact a decision of buying a 90D/FUSC or a 100D without FUSC?
    1. For short trips, a 100D might eliminate or significantly reduce supercharger times
    2. For longer trips, a 100D will save time at the first supercharger stop, but after that, it's likely there won't be much benefit of a 100D, except that you might be able to maintain highway speeds when there's a long space between superchargers (which is likely to get fixed in the next year or two)
    3. And, if an owner anticipates using more than 400 kwh per year, probably better to get the 90D/FUSC than be faced with charging fees, even if that means losing out on the extra 41 miles of range
    For us #1 is more important - since we mostly take the shorter trips - so purchasing a 100D without FUSC made sense - for us. [Plus that's 70 miles more range than our P85!]
     
  15. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    If you believe abetterrouteplanner, going from Los Angeles, CA to New York, NY starting with 90% charge in a 100D.

    Charging Time: 09:24
    Cost: $93
    Driving Time: 42:30
    Distance: 2820 miles
    Total: 51:54

    Default temp, load, etc.
     
  16. Pinot.Noir

    Pinot.Noir Member

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    I had the same struggle with this choice, but just pulled the trigger now on upgrading to the 100D. I just couldn't resist the increased range.
     
  17. Sully's8

    Sully's8 Member

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    Another person in your shoes. . .look at all the posts I have on this. . Have really struggled, but I'm sticking with the 90D, however I will not be going on the long drives you will be. . . I am retaining the interior build - tan / figured ash / blackheadliner, and the ventilated seats, which both went away when the 100D was announced. I wasn't really worried about the SC but throw that in and it helps my case.

    Good luck!!! Mine's coming in March.
     
  18. ACExpress

    ACExpress Member

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    My 60D is on order, so I'm not emotionally involved in the 90 vs 100 debate and associated trade-offs.

    My opinion is that folks are severely over-valuing the FUSC in comparison to the $3000 price difference. If it's your time that's most valuable, paying to "fill up" the 100D (less 400kwh) is negligible in the grand scheme of things. The added range is not negligible to folks who regularly take longer trips. From a consumer behavior standpoint, it's amazing how much folks will fret over the unlimited feature of something likely to cost well less than $500 annually (and probably less than half that). I hate being nickel and dimed as much as the next guy, but it's in a purchaser's best interests to think about how many nickels and dimes it's really going to be.

    As others have pointed out, the (only) $3000 price difference is factoring in this annual cost. If I'm Tesla, I would've priced it $10k higher and include FUSC because people would pay it and not come close to realizing the value of it. In my opinion, $3k upsell and loss of FUSC is a better value, all else equal (and assuming you appreciate the incremental range).

    Now...I can guarantee I will be promoting FUSC as a great feature of my 60D for sale in however many years! I hope its future buyer also places an unreasonably high value on this element.

    Edit: The ventilated seats were important to me, even though they're "not that great" according to some.
     
  19. Jtedi

    Jtedi New Member

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    Here's to hoping: Years from now, I get the option to upgrade to a better pack (like the 2170) that might allow for sub-10 minute full charge @ a supercharger whilst still getting to keep my FUSC with the future upgrade option, then the 90D gamble now would have been worth it.
     
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  20. IT Geek

    IT Geek Member

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    I think this is one of those decisions that every person is going to need to make for themselves based on what they value the most. I did get to have a conversation with my DS the other day though and for me it would have been rather costly to change. I apparently didn't schedule my build out far enough (rookie mistake <grin>) so I would have literally had to cancel the whole thing and lose my initial deposit...then buy the car again and lose FUSC and lose the vent seats as well. My color config did still exist...but I would not have wanted it with solid seats...and my second choice does not exist within the new bundles.

    One piece of info that I did get from my DS though that made things a bit easier for me was the fact that I can pay to upgrade the battery later (say if Tesla comes out with a 150KW pack) because the FUSC goes with the car, not the battery pack. Yeah, it's going to cost more to do that...but I lose too much going the other way.

    I'll admit I'm not totally loving the way that this all worked out. I saw how Tesla handled the P90D to P100D upgrades and thought that we would be given the same option to upgrade. That didn't happen...so a little disappointed in that. However, to me...I really want the FUSC because that's going to motivate me to get out and take the road trips and vacations that I've otherwise been putting off. As I've said to my friends, if I pay this much for a car and only drive it back and forth to work then I'm really not getting the full value out of it.
     
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