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Study finds fine dust emissions from EVs equal to those of conventional cars

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by voyager, May 9, 2016.

  1. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure you're focusing the right group here?

    Any study that says we have a problem with particulate dust being stirred up from the road and heavier vehicles are worse and then proceeds to focus on EVs instead of semis is deeply suspect in my book.
     
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  2. RichardC

    RichardC Cdn Sig & Solar Supporter

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    Having looked into the billions of dollars that are being spent to confuse the public about threats to health and well-being such as those caused by smoking and GHG emissions, it is reasonable to be very skeptical about studies which appear to be, at best, a distraction from the real issues, and at worst a manipulation of the data and the public to confuse them about whether fossil fuel powered cars cause harmful emissions. Please note that the Koch brothers appear to be extending their climate denial and political manipulations efforts to specifically target electric cars. See: The Kochs Are Plotting A Multimillion-Dollar Assault On Electric Vehicles

    This report does not merit the attention it is receiving.
     
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  3. Breezy

    Breezy Member

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    That's a reasonable concern, but I see heavy trucks as beyond the scope of this study. Public policy is currently focused on electrification of the passenger fleet.

    I think it's appropriate to consider which pollutants are reduced by electrification and by how much.
     
  4. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    To my mind, this study is the same creative half thinking as the ones saying EVs are terrible because they are powered by coal, without suggesting that your house air conditioning comes from the same coal.

    Focus on little parts of the picture can lead to a distorted view of the whole.
     
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  5. William13

    William13 Active Member

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    A little research reading the citations from this article reveals the pertinent tunnel study to determine PM10 levels...

    Nonexhaust causes 16.7-19.3 mg/vkm

    Exhaust causes 11.1-12.8 mg/vkm

    This more than negates the 25% estimated not measured increase due to weight. It also does not account for the rising particulate measurements ( not estimates) in Europe. (Likely due to rising diesel use, not EVs).
     
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  6. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    In related news, the force that produces your nanby pampby liberal commie pinko power from your avian killing turbines also contributes to PM10 emissions.

    I hope you can all sleep well tonight.
     
  7. William13

    William13 Active Member

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    PM10 emissions are a local pollution concern only for health. This why VW dieselgate will only kill an estimated 100 people in the USA per a recent study. No studies have been released in Europe where the problem is VASTLY worse...

    CO2 emissions are a global pollution concern for human health and welfare.

    I don't think the risks from wind turbines to birds is near the scale of AGW. Several birds kill themselves flying into windows on my house every year.
     
  8. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    Some additional interesting information on PM10 related to road transport:

    PM10 emission factors of abrasion particles from road traffic (ASTRA2005/007)

    So the metals is mostly about brake dust, which EV obviously have a lot less since we have regenerative braking.

    As for dust:

    So, the issue then is how much dust is on the road the begin with, and how much would be kicked up by wind anyways?

    Simply I think this particular study doesn't go far enough to have much scientific merit. It's a bit lightweight with what it tried to accomplish.
     
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  9. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    Seems as if road dust going to consist of:

    1. Brake material
    2. Tire tread wear
    3. General dust from the surrounding area
    5. Petroleum droppings
    4. Road particles from stud usage


    The only difference EVs could possibly make is reducing brake dust and petroleum droppings. Also because EVs typically have a flat bottom, the air flow is smoother and will kick up less dust. Everything else is a function of either environment or tire choices.
     
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  10. wdolson

    wdolson Well-Known Member

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    My father was born in 1920 and he still remembers the talk when he was a kid about how cars were "pollution free". What they meant was cars don't produce manure.

    As cities grew in the late 1800s and early 1900s they became faced with an ever increasing manure problem. In 1900 New York City was having to deal with 1200 metric tons of manure a day as well as all the flies that bred. London had the Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894 where there were predictions that in 50 years the streets of London were going to be buried under 9 feet of manure.

    Not only was manure a problem, but horses used for city transport were often mistreated and dying on the job was not uncommon. Owners would then abandon the carcass and the city would have to deal with it. New York City removed 15,000 dead horses a year from city streets.

    As soon as the price of cars began to get within the reach of the middle class, horses quickly disappeared from city streets. Cars were not only touted as "pollution free" but they were cheaper to keep and quickly evolved to be able to move more weight than any horse ever could.

    People will gravitate towards a new idea once they are convinced it's better than the old one. Tesla is just short of that tipping point now with EVs. When the Model 3 gets out there in large numbers and people of more modest means than those who can afford a Model S or X start getting them, people will get a chance to see and drive the cars and learn about them from the new owners. It will spread like wildfire at that point.

    Right now some people are convinced EVs are the future, but the general public are still thinking ICEs are it for now.

    In any case, I think this may have just been one of those click bait articles that don't say anything of value, but have a catchy headline to draw in viewers.
     
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  11. DMC-Orangeville

    DMC-Orangeville 85D and John Deere 5100E

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  12. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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  13. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

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    I was too scared to click the link
     
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  14. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Member

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    Indeed. Instead of citing 'more toxic tire and brake dust' as a major problem, he could have easily gone back four years to write his slant on this:

    "The editorial revealed a surprising ignorance of the policies driving these new vehicles to market. Reducing emissions, protecting public health and ending oil dependence are the primary reasons the state and national governments are spurring market introduction of cleaner, more fuel-efficient cars including plug-in electric vehicles. We subsidize relatively cheap gasoline with higher health care costs, environmental degradation and military spending."

    Source: Ignore the naysayers on electric cars

    Then again, most of us know this already.
     
  15. EM al seT

    EM al seT New Member

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    This is like comparing the seat cushioning to a turd. It may not be as soft, but you're comparing it to sh#t. Any study that focuses on one characteristic is not very comprehensive and therefore shouldn't be used to generalize.
     
  16. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    Robert Llewellyn's take on the report.

    Starts at 1:38

    WARNING: NSFW

     
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