Study says fuel taxes are the best way to encourage sales of greener cars

[Sharkbait]

What's needed is a phase-in, gradual increases and an adjustment in the minimum wage that takes it into account.

I agree; for the tough jobs that require people to actually work, the minimum wage should be increased but welfare should not. Sooner or later, lazy people will get of their butts and take a job. The more people that are working, the more people that will be paying taxes for 'programs'. BTW, be careful about what you ask for. When you demand $25/hour for flipping burgers, it's likely business will find a way to replace you. Few I know will pay $50 for a burger, even an In-N-Out burger.

In fact, our society subsidies fossil fuels about 5:1 with renewables, see IMF.

Yes, as I said in the second post, stop subsidizing fossil fuel and move those subsidies to renewables. I can't stop oil companies from raising the price of fuel but I can use less of it and I can vote against increased taxes. In end, and it has been proven, 'water seeks its own level'.

In California, we have been ripped off for decades by the state mandating oil refiners use additives in their fuel that was supposed to eliminate smog and ozone. The cost adds what - another 50 cents a gallon on fuel? Surely this 'Kool Aid' doesn't cost 50 cents a gallon and does about as much good as Kook Aid in cutting smog. The most polluted cities in the US are still in California. This is what happens when moron pols get in bed with oil companies, refiners, and utilities.

Let electric vehicles be free and stay free of all taxes, including DMV fees. Throw in a free EV lane on all toll roads for good measure.

 

[Drivin]

Used Volt is <$8k...

TIL that a Camero is the same as a used Volt.

Why don't people who buy a Tesla buy a used Volt then and use the remaining money to buy carbon credits? That would have a significantly higher impact on stopping the destruction of the Earth.

 

[neroden]

More taxes? Hmmm, I wonder how more taxes has curbed cigarette smoking and alcohol consumption?

They've actually been quite effective for both purposes. There are studies, look them up.

They're not as effective as they would be if alcohol and tobacco were not *highly addictive*, but they work pretty well for affecting the people who haven't gotten addicted.

 

[Chopr147]

A tax? As a solution? Or to line the politicians pockets a bit more? Yes the poorer among us will be hit the hardest with most products being raised to cover the tax cost. And personally at my age 53, and having watched the US Gov't piss away money I no longer trust them to do the right thing. I know I sound bitter, but i'm not really. But, I am tired of paying exorbinant taxes each year for more and more people to stay home and watch the soaps

 

[nwdiver]

TIL that a Camero is the same as a used Volt.

It's called responsibility... if you want a fast car then save up for a Tesla...

Just don't force future generations to subsidize your POS camero with their quality of life... that's beyond abhorrent.

 

[Sharkbait]

There are studies, look them up.

I did. My 'sin' stocks are doing quite well, thanks to all those that can't stop smoking or drinking. As usual, the feds and states are eager to get in on the action and take the money from all those addicted. Then, they will turn around and pay for their healthcare. The irony...

 

[neroden]

A tax? As a solution? Or to line the politicians pockets a bit more? Yes the poorer among us will be hit the hardest with most products being raised to cover the tax cost. And personally at my age 53, and having watched the US Gov't piss away money I no longer trust them to do the right thing. I know I sound bitter, but i'm not really. But, I am tired of paying exorbinant taxes each year for more and more people to stay home and watch the soaps

Really, you should look more carefully at the federal budget. You have a serious misunderstanding of where most of the taxes are going...

Your taxes are mostly going to keep troops in Germany and South Korea, to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, to line the pockets of military contractors, to dump piles of weapons for mujihadeen in Afghanistan so that they could create the Taliban, to dump piles of weapons in Iraq for ISIS to walk off with, and to dump piles of weapons in Saudi Arabia for their 17th century monarchy.... etc. I am not happy about this...

 

[Sharkbait]

Really, you should look more carefully at the federal budget. You have a serious misunderstanding of where most of the taxes are going...

Countries or regions of the world that want our military support should pay for it, all of it, 100%. In return, we spend our dollars in their countries. In lieu of cash, we'll take natural resources in barter (if they have any). No loans and no aid. Quid pro quo....

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Subsidies and taxes are both evil because they are manipulative. You do things to gain one and avoid the other. Sad. And, without re-writing the covenants of our so-called modern society, we are stuck with them.

We have created a system that in order to insure an arbitrary measure of fairness asks each and every individual to be numbered (Social Security Number), their income counted, children had, losses suffered deducted, etc. and all tracked so that at the end of the day a dollar number assigned. Based on that number, you either get a credit or a bill.

What have we allowed ourselves to become? Because it is our collective fault.

Gas taxes are bad, as are EV taxes.

If there has to be a tax, then it should be milage traveled X vehicle weight. End of story, at least my story.

Same thing, for stuff (food excluded). Just a flat use tax. You buy expensive stuff, and more stuff, then you pay more. All things being equal that should be fair. I am talking about everything from a plastic toy to industrial machines and homes. In essence, the flat use tax would actually be pretty low if you taxed the big stuff with zero breaks. The wealthy and corporations would really pay more.

Sorry, half rant, half hope for the world.

 

[Chopr147]

Obviously you look at it from a different point of view. We could go back and forth for days over what tax money is wasted on. We could probably agree taxes are necessity. Safety net programs are needed but also abused immensely. I see it on a daily basis and families lean on welfare for generations upon generations with no desire to make it on their own. Since you assume I know little about the budget I checked. 10% goes to these safety net programs. 362 billion in 2015. 16% for defense. And thanks to Obamacare 25% and rising each year for healthcare

 

[AB4EJ]

There are fuel taxes (which already exist at a certain level), and also the proposed carbon tax (which would work all the way up and down the chain, like the VAT in Europe). If the government wants to achieve the public good of clean air, reduced CO2, etc., these tools are the only way to do it (in fact, some oil companies are starting to lobby to do just that). It can be done revenue-neutral (by adding a tax rebate to soften the blow to the poor) if we really want to; however, based on what I have seen, the poor often drive vehicles that literally put out clouds of pollution, and we would all benefit if we could help them get into better vehicles. Further, fuel taxes have not kept up with inflation for many years - governments (including states) need revenue to repair roads and keep bridges from collapsing. Nobody likes taxes of course, but you have to have them for various reasons.... just make sure the proceeds go toward actually helping the situation rather than to simple pork-barrel spending...

 

[nwdiver]

Subsidies and taxes are both evil because they are manipulative. You do things to gain one and avoid the other. Sad. And, without re-writing the covenants of our so-called modern society, we are stuck with them.

I wish that utopia existed where people weighed the external costs of their actions... I really do. But in the real world most people are ignorant and selfish. People didn't voluntarily stop smoking in restaurants and airplanes forcing other to endure the risks of second hand smoke... it had to be banned.

Perhaps EVs will advance to the point that they can legitimately compete with ICE... but the science is clear... we can't wait... and we can't take that risk. We need to attach the external costs of using fools fuel to the operating cost of ICE... and that external cost is astronomical.

 

[AndreN]

Yup, you can thank our no-tax Republicans for that.

Funny thing here is, as much as I might like to blame Republicans for this, I just looked up the Washington state House and Senate bills (HB 2660, SB 6455, year 2011-2012) and all the sponsors for the bills appear to be Democrats. I didn't look to see who sponsored the recent bill to raise the tax from $100 to $150.

 

[Sharkbait]

Most governments are greedy swine. They will extract as much money from you as possible and more than what's needed to run a state effectively. It's not likely to change soon. They will always be looking for something new to tax. As it has been said before; “Nothing is certain except for death and taxes.” Don't fret, electric car tax exploitation is on their radar.

Yup, you can thank our no-tax Republicans for that.

I no longer identify myself as a democrat or republican. I do prefer to say that I am a fiscal conservative. I don't spend more than I make or more than I've saved. No missed payments, no bounced checks, only an 848 FICO but fiscally responsible, as our politicans should be with our money and as the rest of us are 'expected' to be. If I don't like Netflix, I cancel it before ordering up Hulu. Budget neutral.

Quite frankly, today there isn't a nickel's difference between democrats and republicans - liars, cheats, corrupt, long on wind, short on brains and totally out of touch with the electorate. They are the privileged, 'don't do as I do; do as I say' clowns. The fathers of our Constitution must be rolling over in their graves. With the dumbing down of America, it's only going to get worse. Sad.

 

[nwdiver]

Most governments are greedy swine. They will extract as much money from you as possible and more than what's needed to run a state effectively.

Ok... no carbon or gas tax.... what's your solution to curbing our fools fuel addiction?

 

[mspohr]

Yes. Increased taxes on gas hurt poor people the most.

It's amazing to see the compassion for poor people which comes out whenever any form of regressive tax is proposed. Of course, the reality is that richer people pay more of this tax than poor people but I do appreciate the concern for poor people in this instance.
There are lots of ways to compensate poor people for the extra few dollars spent on these taxes. Something like improving public transit would be a good use of the money. This is not as popular since public transit is mostly used by the poor (who can't afford cars and insurance, etc.).

 

[renim]

Ok... no carbon or gas tax.... what's your solution to curbing our fools fuel addiction?

In regards to fuel, CAFE standards reduce fuel consumption in a way that does not penalize 2nd, 3rd or 4th buyers of vehicles. Effectively CAFE is a non regressive way to reduce fuel consumption. CAFE itself has not needed to do that much, currently the effect of down cylindering (8->6, 6->4), and vehicle size creep, has basically done CAFEs job for it. There is a lot further to go, PHEVs can get any AWD/4x4 class vehicle to 90% electric. the last 10% can be any fuel of choice ie todays' ethanol production can power a lot of miles in a Volt range PHEV.

Personally I think the oil stockpile can be replenished via a new vehicle surcharge based on perhaps 1 years average oil use. Ie 12,000 miles of fuel use equivalent to go to the oil stockpile. As long as the money did not leak to other government expenses. A large and growing oil stockpile would be of immense help to the USA.

Carbon taxes that go up and down like a VAT suck severely, apportioning the tax is supremely non objective, and quite expensive, the end result tend to be outsourcing to non carbon tax economies (like the transition of aluminum production from Australia to China and Indonesia) Its challenging to find aluminium production in a more carbon intensive country than Australia, but the Carbon tax actually transferred aluminium production from Australia to to Indonesia and China, so it actually happened.

 

[nwdiver]

In regards to fuel, CAFE standards reduce fuel consumption in a way that does not penalize 2nd, 3rd or 4th buyers of vehicles.

Well... I look forward to your 'Study says CAFE standards are the best way to encourage sales of greener cars' thread

 

[Drivin]

It's called responsibility... if you want a fast car then save up for a Tesla...

Just don't force future generations to subsidize your POS camero with their quality of life... that's beyond abhorrent.

Lol.
If one were responsible, they would buy a used leaf and use the remainder of the money to buy carbon credits rather than getting tax payer subsidies to buy a very expensive car.

Abhorrent is the poor subsidizing the rich rather than having the rich buy responsibly and help out by buying carbon credits.

 

[stopcrazypp]

A drastically increased gas tax probably isn't going to be very popular, but it should at the very least scale by inflation (given a reasonable baseline starting point; our current gas tax haven't changed since 1993, so current price is not a valid baseline). Another idea that should be implement is a gas price floor. Meaning the tax should be designed such that prices at the pump will never go below a certain amount.

American people have very short memories. When gas prices go low, they flock to gas guzzling vehicles. Then when they go high, they cry for mercy and sales of such vehicles tank. Rinse and repeat. We have gone through this cycle multiple times already, but the lesson seems to never be learned. A gas price floor will at least ensure there is some end to this cycle.