Sub 5 sec 0-60 time (Speculation)

[SageBrush]

5.6 is a bit weaksauce and unimpressive, considering the bigger, heavier S goes mid 4's.

That is, I think, the idea.
As it is Tesla does not have an easy time of keeping Model S sales up.

 

[R.S]

Then be prepared to be surprised.
Model 3 75D will weigh around 3700 pounds.
The base 60 3400

Book it

Is that a guess, or based on any information?

A 330i is 3501 lbs with a manual transmission and the 3 series is a smaller car than the Model 3. So even if the electric drivetrain would add no weight, it should weigh more than the 330i, not 100 lbs less. The A4 2.0 TFSI ultra is 3,450 lbs and closer in size to a Model 3. But that's a FWD 190hp petrol car...

 

[Swampgator]

Elon said during a conference call that the Model 3 will weigh about 20% less than Model S.
A model S 75D weighs 4700 pounds. 80% of that is 3750#
Assuming the batteries (2170) have an energy density exceeding 320 w/kg which is likely, then the 60 kwh base Model 3 should weigh a couple hundred pounds less just on battery alone. Then subtract the front motor and reduction gear and it should be about 300# less than the 75D, or 3400#

 

[R.S]

Elon said during a conference call that the Model 3 will weigh about 20% less than Model S.
A model S 75D weighs 4700 pounds. 80% of that is 3750#
Assuming the batteries (2170) have an energy density exceeding 320 w/kg which is likely, then the 60 kwh base Model 3 should weigh a couple hundred pounds less just on battery alone. Then subtract the front motor and reduction gear and it should be about 300# less than the 75D, or 3400#

It think those 80% included a smaller and generally lighter battery, so 75 and 60 are compared. The car really isn't that much smaller, than the S, roughly 90% of the footprint, and is built with steel, where the S has aluminum.

And 300lbs savings on 15kWh would lead to a pretty awful 110 Wh/kg, worse than the Bolt (136 Wh/kg pack level).

 

[JeffK]

It think those 80% included a smaller and generally lighter battery, so 75 and 60 are compared. The car really isn't that much smaller, than the S, roughly 90% of the footprint, and is built with steel, where the S has aluminum.

And 300lbs savings on 15kWh would lead to a pretty awful 110 Wh/kg, worse than the Bolt (136 Wh/kg pack level).

Keep in mind the Model 3 is said to be a mix of aluminum and steel depending on where each makes sense. (The Bolt is also partially aluminum.)

 

[Swampgator]

It think those 80% included a smaller and generally lighter battery, so 75 and 60 are compared. The car really isn't that much smaller, than the S, roughly 90% of the footprint, and is built with steel, where the S has aluminum.

And 300lbs savings on 15kWh would lead to a pretty awful 110 Wh/kg, worse than the Bolt (136 Wh/kg pack level).

You are right, I did the math wrong. So the base 60 may only save 150 pounds from the 75D.
As the Model 3 relates to the BMW 330i you mentioned: The motor and transmission in the BMW probably weighs 600-700 pounds and that car is made from steel. The battery in the Model 3 75 will weigh around 500-600 pounds. SO battery and motor in a RWD 75 is about the same weight as a 330i engine and tranny. And Model 3 will use some aluminum to lighten the car. We just don't know how much

 

[R.S]

You are right, I did the math wrong. So the base 60 may only save 150 pounds from the 75D.
As the Model 3 relates to the BMW 330i you mentioned: The motor and transmission in the BMW probably weighs 600-700 pounds and that car is made from steel. The battery in the Model 3 75 will weigh around 500-600 pounds. SO battery and motor in a RWD 75 is about the same weight as a 330i engine and tranny. And Model 3 will use some aluminum to lighten the car. We just don't know how much

Could very well be that the Model 3 comes close to the 330i, but I doubt the 75 will, because the 75kWh battery will be heavier. The 100kWh pack weights 1300 lbs, we know that these new cells only have about 33% more volume, but twice the energy, so the 60kWh pack could come in at 520 lbs. The BMW 2.0 engine is about 250lbs and the transmission is about 180 lbs, add in a couple of accessory parts i couldn't find and your at 450lbs for the 330i. So maybe with more aluminum, the bigger Model 3 60 could with as little as a 330i.

 

[Swampgator]

Could very well be that the Model 3 comes close to the 330i, but I doubt the 75 will, because the 75kWh battery will be heavier. The 100kWh pack weights 1300 lbs, we know that these new cells only have about 33% more volume, but twice the energy, so the 60kWh pack could come in at 520 lbs. The BMW 2.0 engine is about 250lbs and the transmission is about 180 lbs, add in a couple of accessory parts i couldn't find and your at 450lbs for the 330i. So maybe with more aluminum, the bigger Model 3 60 could with as little as a 330i.

I calculate the cells alone in a 60 pack should weight a little over 400#. So your estimate of 520# including pack sounds reasonable. BUt at that same energy density (320wh/kg) the 75 kwh pack will only weigh about 100# more than the 60.

 

[Swampgator]

Also R.S. It will take a BMW 340i to be competitive with a Model 3 75D. The weight of that car is 3700# because of the 6 cylinder drive train. It will still get outperformed but the BMW would be cost parity with what we expect the 75D to come in at. At least I expect it to cost about 50K with the premium package.

 

[R.S]

Also R.S. It will take a BMW 340i to be competitive with a Model 3 75D. The weight of that car is 3700# because of the 6 cylinder drive train. It will still get outperformed but the BMW would be cost parity with what we expect the 75D to come in at. At least I expect it to cost about 50K with the premium package.

Actually a 340i xDrive, which is 3850lbs. But the 75D has another motor, so maybe as much a the BMW. I am still not sure how heavy it's going to be but as heavy as a comparable 3 series would actually be really great.

Do you mean the 340i will outperform the 75D? I think 0-60 could be rather close with those two, but I agree on the price tag. 50k sounds reasonable, even if parts of the forum will stone us to death for saying it will cost more than 40k...

 

[zenmaster]

Actually a 340i xDrive, which is 3850lbs. But the 75D has another motor, so maybe as much a the BMW. I am still not sure how heavy it's going to be but as heavy as a comparable 3 series would actually be really great.

Do you mean the 340i will outperform the 75D? I think 0-60 could be rather close with those two, but I agree on the price tag. 50k sounds reasonable, even if parts of the forum will stone us to death for saying it will cost more than 40k...

The G20 is coming next year with pretty decent carbon fiber weight reduction. 50-100kg

 

[Runt8]

Could very well be that the Model 3 comes close to the 330i, but I doubt the 75 will, because the 75kWh battery will be heavier. The 100kWh pack weights 1300 lbs, we know that these new cells only have about 33% more volume, but twice the energy, so the 60kWh pack could come in at 520 lbs. The BMW 2.0 engine is about 250lbs and the transmission is about 180 lbs, add in a couple of accessory parts i couldn't find and your at 450lbs for the 330i. So maybe with more aluminum, the bigger Model 3 60 could with as little as a 330i.

It’s not the weight, it’s where you put it

 

[R.S]

It’s not the weight, it’s where you put it

Pretty sure this was a genitalia joke, just not sure what to make of it...

 

[Runt8]

Pretty sure this was a genitalia joke, just not sure what to make of it...

Lol, no, I was going for something a little less specific than that...

 

[hoang51]

This is why I think Tesla should implement power controls as part of driver profiles and maybe even a parental control. I, personally, want the fastest model available at a price I can afford. However, if my wife is driving it, it'd be nice to make it use less power. There's a middle ground between valet mode and the simulated lower models where this would be perfect.

I would think this wouldn't be too difficult for Tesla to implement in software, and I would agree my wife would not like the same level of performance that I would appreciated. Also would be handy if you loaned out your car to your children or let a friend drive you home from a party.

Tesla has achieved such with software to emulate various lower powered Model S to give desired experiences: Tesla vehicles can now emulate other, less powerful models through software

 

[JeffK]

Tesla has achieved such with software to emulate various lower powered Model S to give desired experiences: Tesla vehicles can now emulate other, less powerful models through software

Yes, but if your least powerful model still goes 0-60 in 4.x seconds there's a large middle ground there between valet mode and emulating the lowest model. If it was customizable and combined with parental locks, it could be great for teens, loaning the car out to untrustworthy friends, or even for a spouse who isn't comfortable with quick accelerating cars and uses it on rare occasions.