TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

sudden acceleration

Discussion in 'Model X' started by BinWing, May 12, 2017.

Tags:
  1. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,554
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I smell... FUD...

    Jeff
     
    • Like x 2
    • Disagree x 1
  2. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    You are describing the classic pedal mis-identification case. I know it's hard to understand, but any human can do this at times and will swear they were on the brakes but they were actually on the throttle. This is where all the "unintended acceleration" cases that Audi dealt with in the '80s and Toyota a few years ago.

    If you care to learn more, Malcom Gladwell has an awesome podcast on this:

    Revisionist History Episode 08
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  3. PluggedINLife

    PluggedINLife Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    california
    I've had something similar but with AP on. In the freeway I was behind a car that changed lanes and in front of me was a large Blue truck. It maintained my speed for a second and then just accelerated as it was going to crash into the truck and I had to break. I tried again a second time to test it out and it was fine again for a second or two and then started to accelerate. It was after work so the freeway was pretty busy and I AP was about 10 to 15 mph. I was able to take a video of it as well which I am going to be sharing with the service team tomorrow.
     
  4. dark

    dark Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    california
    I don't see how the log could justify the difference between the acceration peddle was pressed by the driver or by itself. Computer log could only read acceration was engaged.

    I read too many stories and Tesla would never admit fault regardless.
     
    • Disagree x 3
  5. skitown

    skitown Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    853
    Location:
    Central Idaho, U.S.A, Earth
    To each his own. It's been the best auto-owning experience I've had. Tesla's customer service has been stellar. And... I'm out.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  6. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Tesla logs two independent throttle and Brake position sensors.

    If you say "I was standing on the brake" and all they have logged is two maxed out throttle sensors, then you were standing on the throttle. You'd have to argue that there were 4 simultaneous failures for that to be contrary to what happened.

    Now, if you are arguing that it just accelerated all on its own, then that could be true, and then the question becomes "where were your feet"? and "why were you not pressing the brake?"

    If you believe stories, listen to another one: Revisionist History Episode 08
     
    • Like x 2
    • Disagree x 2
  7. dark

    dark Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    california
    I am not taking any position, but I do worry that one day this shxt can happen to me. That's the thing, you can never win an argument with Tesla. "Why your foot not pressing the brake". Human needs time to react. And why aren't the emergency braking system breaks? The car is full of senors, if you are under 20mph, it should be impossible for the car to hit anything.
     
    • Disagree x 2
    • Funny x 1
  8. Yinn

    Yinn Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,585
    Location:
    Behind you
    I've had the same happen on my AP1, but mine was a white reflective truck. It's happened on enough occasions that I determined the cameras seem to have issues reading white semi trucks and will typically disengage as I'm approaching one.

    The accelerator has two sensors. Between the two, it's able to determine if the car is under acceleration and whether the pedal itself is pressed. This is apparent when AP is able to accelerate, but the pedal itself doesn't move down. If you manually press the pedal while AP is active, it will also yell at you for pressing the pedal down. So it is able to tell.

    I'm one to believe, where there's smoke, there's usually fire. But I also acknowledge there's a lot of muscle memory type differences when going to and from a Tesla/NonTesla.
     
  9. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Is there anyplace that Tesla has ever advertised that it isn't possible to hit a car below 20 MPH? You're arguing that because you believe it might be technically possible, then it should be true, even though Tesla never advertised it as something the car does?

    It's technically possible to put a man on Mars. Are you pissed at all the governments in the world have failed to do so? It's technically possible for Tesla to write software that uses facial recognition to let you in the car by putting your face near the backup camera. Do you expect them to do that? Do you promise to not sue Tesla if they tell you "it likely can't hit cars below 20 MPH" and then it manages to do it one day?

    The reason the "why was your foot not on the brake?" question is valid is that when you argue to any car manufacturer that the car accelerated on it's own and the datalog shows the throttle pedal is pressed, there are two options: The redundant and cross-checked system in the car failed in a way that a valid accelerate signal was processed, or it was you pressing the pedal. One is about 1,000,000 times more likely than the other.

    Tesla's accelerator sensing is no different than any other modern car on the road.
     
  10. DOCAL

    DOCAL Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Yes
     
    • Like x 5
    • Funny x 2
  11. Epymian

    Epymian Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    107
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC
    I have had this issue while slowing down to turn with a car in front of me when the auto steer disengages but cruise does not. The Tesla surges as it tries to get back up to speed when the car in front turns first and there is nothing in front of me at this point until I make the turn. I expect it now and pay more attention.

    I still feel that there should be collision avoidance that overrides everything else and brakes the car when impact is imminent. With the radar and optical sensors this should be possible. Other cars seem to have it. Not sure why my 1.0 HW MX does not.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Which car in the world do you believe has this?

    Tesla does have Automatic Emergency Braking. But no car can work in every situation, and AEB in all cars is meant to reduce the impact of a crash, not avoid it completely.
     
  13. Yinn

    Yinn Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,585
    Location:
    Behind you
    There are some the used to advertise the ability to avoid all at a certain speed. Volvo was one of them: Technology 1, distracted drivers 0: Volvo City Safety cuts accidents by 27% - ExtremeTech

    Unfortunately for them, the technology was not too reliable at the time and there were some embarrassing videos of the failure. It seems it paid off though as mobileye has them ranked first and avoiding most 40kph shortly after. This was back in 2013..
    http://www.mobileye.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/adac_AEbs_report_en.pdf
     
    • Informative x 2
  14. MS16

    MS16 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    330
    Location:
    Calif
    Very interesting to read that some of these systems were able to stop for stationary objects way back in 2011, in actual production cars sold to the public.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. earlyretirement

    earlyretirement Model X 90D

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    249
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Yep. This also happened to me before. I think it's exactly as you mentioned above and I accidentally pushed the stalk which activated the cruise control and it accelerated very rapidly. The scary thing was it was a red light ahead and cars and the car didn't seem to slow down. I had to slam on the breaks. It wasn't a good feeling. It sounds like this is what happened to you.

    I think Tesla should definitely look at this as it sounds like it's happening to quite a few people.
     
    • Informative x 1
  16. Kristoffer Helle

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Norge
    Even if it had accelerated by itself( we know it didn't). Why didn't you just hit the brakes?
    I would love to see a video of this accident haha
     
  17. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    9,451
    Location:
    EU
    The empathy on TMC is overflowing. What wonderful people some are...

    Accidental cruise control resume would seem like a plausible candidate and with the immediate torque of a Tesla, it seems obvious from the report that they driver simply did not react fast enough to hit the brakes.

    There are tons of reports of accidental cruise control resume in corner-turning situations on TMC, so that seems like a very plausible scenario.
     
    • Like x 2
  18. BinWing

    BinWing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Palo Alto, CA
     
  19. BinWing

    BinWing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Palo Alto, CA
    I am still trying to wrap my head around this, while Tesla still not calling back to view the log.

    I want to understand, how fast you can react to avoid hitting the parked car when you make the right turn at probably 55 mph speed. The feeling of the car suddenly accelerated at a high speed while your expectation is the slow right turn, still haunt me two days later. I am usually proud of my quick reflex. This one is beyond me. I first feel the human fear, the rational reaction comes seconds later....
     
  20. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    9,451
    Location:
    EU
    #40 AnxietyRanger, May 14, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
    The torque of any Tesla (any good EV really) accelerating from 0 is immense - and even more so if you have a Performance model. Do you have a "P" model?

    Is it possible you touched the cruise control stalk by mistake while turning? This seems to be a common mistake and could result in cruise control resuming an old speed with gusto or even maintaining current speed could be a problem if you thought you were decelerating into the corner...
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC