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Sudden large degradation supposedly a "new algorithm"

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by ckessel, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    I have a 2012 P85. I've had steady, but slow degradation, perfect acceptable. A daily charge (used to be called 90%, but whatever the line is at the top of the daily range is what I use), would get me about 225-230 in rated range at this point. Suddenly, in the last week, it dropped to 195-200. I called my local service shop and the fellow said it's related to a recent software update, and there was one a few days ago, that changed the algorithm to apparently account for my driving habits. In theory, the range is now closer to what I should get based on my driving history.

    Ok, that's great, that'd be a nice option (I thought the energy graph could do that for you, but I haven't looked at that graph in years). The problem is now I have no idea what my actual degradation is. He says there is no way to revert the change and no option to use the old algorithm. There's no way for me to now see the objective EPA rated range, only the subjective range.

    I asked him to relay up the change this is a terrible decision. If I go to show off my car and someone asks about degradation, I have no way to show them my real degradation (or lack thereof). When I fully charge, I'm going to get a shocked look when they see I'm 30 miles or more off of the Tesla touted 265 my car had. If I try to sell my car, I have NO way to show them the real degradation, just a "take my word for it, it's not as bad as it looks".

    I also have no way, in the event of an actual sudden degradation problem, to prove that's what the problem is. I'm going to have to fight with Tesla to get them to believe that the value isn't normal. Who knows, I might have a real problem, but Tesla can just wave their hands and say "algorithm adjustments".

    So, anyone affected by this same issue, I encourage you to make your voice heard by Tesla that this is a terrible decision. At a minimum, I should be able to see what my real degradation is.

    I'll be digging around in settings screens, hoping to find something to show me a real value, but the service fellow didn't seem to think there was one.
     
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  2. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Complete BS. Rated range has nothing to do with your driving history. This needs to be added to the thread of stupid things Tesla people have said. If Tesla really changed the algorithm so rated range displayed was personalized rather than EPA rated range, you would have heard about it from hundreds of people here.
     
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  3. Sparky

    Sparky Member

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    @ckessel What's your lifetime Wh/mi? I have a 2013 with the most recent SW update.
    Still seeing about 230mi for 90%.
    My lifetime Wh/mi is 330.
    I tend to agree with TexasEV. Sounds like b.s. from someone at Tesla.
     
  4. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    Even though the tesla staff gave you bs, this is not degradation regardless. The battery stick holds the same kwh as prior to the software update. Ideal range shouldn't have changed and is a good way to look at degradation since it should be linear with actual battery capacity
     
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  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    You can still figure out battery capacity, right ? Just use the charging data
     
  6. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    #6 ckessel, Jun 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
    Yep, I think it's complete BS, but I've no idea how to prove otherwise. Near as I can tell, I went from 5-6% degradation to 15% in a week and Tesla won't even recognize that's a fact much less even proceed to a conversation on whether not it needs to be fixed. They didn't suggest looking at logs or anything. They couldn't even tell me what the change was, just that he remembered seeing an email or report about it. I have my 62,500 mile maintenance coming up in a few weeks and I'm going to grill them on it since I'll be there in person.

    I'm pretty damn pissed off. I've had good service out of the Portland office in the past, but this was not a good experience. The battery is the single most expensive and important thing in the car. To brush off my query with "eh, I think it's an algorithm change" was not acceptable.

    Edit: I went and dug through the screens and it says energy is given as "rated", so the idea it's displaying miles based on my personal driving habits seems complete BS.
     
  7. KidDoc

    KidDoc Supporting Member

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    Try changing to ideal?

    I do think they are giving you BS.
     
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  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Ideal is not more accurate than rated in assessing battery capacity. It's just a different way of expressing it. The problem is battery capacity can't be measured directly, so any result is an estimate.
     
  9. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    Rated miles has always been a crock but either way, the info you got is wrong. There have been others that have reported sudden large range drops and if I recall correctly in those cases a single battery magazine in the battery pack was experiencing an issue.
     
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  10. fren

    fren Member

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    charge to 100 , discharge to under 0 (at least 4 km ) then recharge to 100 and check
     
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  11. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    Regardless of the reason given it still is a result of the recent update.

    Why not do a long (longest) trip to an SC and compare to your previous records for that same round trip? Or at least find out if you can still make it to that SC. 8^)

    My 2012 had its battery replaced for other reasons, like many early cars, so your case is a bit unusual.
    --
     
  12. oktane

    oktane Active Member

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    Do you supercharge a lot? There's a thread about degraded battery capacity if you fast charge too much.
     
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  13. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    #13 ckessel, Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
    Did a max charge last night, came out to 218. I got 249 or 250 a few weeks ago. 218 / 265 = ~18% degradation (though I was getting 270 when I first got it, but I'll use the 265 official number)

    Either I just suffered a large degradation in the last week due to some internal block of batteries failing or I've had high degradation and the newer algorithm is showing it. Either way, my battery has high degradation, much higher than most other folks, so now I have the joy of trying to convince Tesla...

    (Re: supercharging. Less than 20 times over the years.)
     
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  14. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not degraded battery capacity, it's that supercharging is a few minutes slower to prevent degraded battery capacity.
     
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  15. Piney999

    Piney999 Member

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    I had this EXACT same problem, talked to Tesla Service and got the EXACT same answer. So I am not sure it is in fact BS. I think Tesla is trying to make the rated range more reliable. I agree with the OP however, that it is both alarming and tough to tell the Tesla story to others. Before I could tell people that the battery had lost very little range over 4 years, now I am not sure how much the range has changed.

    I am charging to 100% tomorrow, and I will be curious to see how much my ideal has changed.
     
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  16. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Please explain the numbers. Are you reporting the car calculated anticipated range ?
    What is the ideal range ?
    Can you use the car's estimate of time to complete charge to calculate useable battery capacity ?
     
  17. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    #17 ckessel, Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
    I'm not sure what's to explain....I did a max charge, it charged to 218 miles of rated range. In my settings, I'm configured for "rated" range. The P85 in 2012 came with 265 miles of "rates" range at max charge, which was true, I'd get 265 or more at max charge back in 2012. I now get 218.

    I suspect you're saying "ideal" to mean "max charge". Ideal actually has a specific, now very obscure, meaning to Tesla based on the pre-2012 EPA standards and not relevant to this discussion.
     
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  18. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    Sounds to me like you have a module out.
     
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  19. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    Indeed, based on other stories here, it sounds like it to me as well.

    I have an appointment scheduled for July 7th, for that and it's close to my 62,500 mile maintenance anyway. I'll post again here once they look into it and report whatever I find out.
     
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  20. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    @ckessel

    Refer to this page (4.6) from the user manual and change units from miles to energy.

    upload_2017-6-29_9-20-28.png
     

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