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Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Dutchmeeuw, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. lightningltd

    lightningltd Member

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    While supercharging, or even in the car with it off, I hit the Tesla T, select Arcade.
    Immediately, power steering starts working, and I was able to take it out of park. Display says parking brake is not engaged. If passive entry is off, it will switch back to park with the parking brake not applied. Power steering, etc stays on until you exit the arcade
    Needless to say, not a behavior that would be safe, especially if a child goes to play the games.
     
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  2. lightningltd

    lightningltd Member

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    Now I am confused. With a 2013 S85 should I be using 295 or 276??? I did not think they could modify EPA ratings :p
     
  3. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, my sticker shows 253 which is what I got when it was new with range mode on. With range mode off, it was 252.

    Did your P85D come with 21" wheels? If so, then they factored in the 4% less range. The P85D was never re-rated by the EPA so the numbers never changed.

    Despite the claimed lower efficiency of the 21" wheels, when I swap mine on which I bought about a year after getting the car, my wh / mile average stayed the same long term and on commute trips to work so despite the claim that it was less efficient, I think that only holds true for staggered setup which has the wider rear wheels. My 21" wheels are the square all the way around.

    Also, when you change wheels to reset the sensors, you have to select the wheel size but doing so makes no difference in range calculation. Additionally, the actual diameter of the 19" tire vs the 21" tire is no different than 1 mm so I'm still not quite sure why you need to select the wheel size itself.
    Screen Shot 2019-07-25 at 11.56.16 AM.png
     
  4. DJRas

    DJRas Supporting Member

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    Well... The actual EPA rating said 38kWh/100 miles (380Wh/mi)
    The 295Wh/mi was used to calibrate their full usable pack (78.1kWh) and 265 mil EPA range

    So, they aren't changing the EPA Wh/mi rating... just how the kWh remaining capacity is displayed to the user. This is probably the escape clause Tesla uses.
    upload_2019-7-25_11-57-36.png
     
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  5. lightningltd

    lightningltd Member

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    Its not the range indicator that was changed. They the reduced usable capacity of the pack itself. The range loss is a symptom of the removal (lock out).
     
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  6. DJRas

    DJRas Supporting Member

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    They did BOTH... but not at the same time.
    I just haven't pinpointed when the 276 Wh/mi was introduced (for S 85 RWD cars).
     
  7. jensk2

    jensk2 Member

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    Yes, but Take care! Running down to 5% is not the same as resting at 9%! Your 'case' is more like cycling at P5 == 9%. f you look at the P5 graph, it degrades MORE than P2, P3 and P4, that cyclies around 65%, 45% and 19%.

    As well, in real life you cycle far more than 6 or 12 percent. This paper/test presumably was designed to show what happens at different SoC.

    But this paper - in isolation - definetely does not argue against storing at a very low SoC. This very well matches Jeff Dahns comment in the All-over-the-internet-video, that a Li-Ion cell stored at 20% SoC and at low temperature lasts forever.
     
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  8. faughtz

    faughtz Model S P85DL

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    I do have staggered 21”s, so I guess that’s the difference. All interesting...

    So I guess I gave up 4% degradation, before I even took delivery.
     
  9. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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    Right. Yea, my comment that I got slammed over was me disagreeing with someone else where they said running down to 5% remaining was really bad for the battery. 5% is actually 9.8% when you factor in the 4kwh buffer. TM-SPY includes the buffer but the display subtracts it before display remaining SOC% so 5% on the IC display shows 10% in TM-SPY which is the true SOC.
     
  10. Whiteblaze

    Whiteblaze Member

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    It's not, though. I have 19"s and my sticker says 242. It is an early P85D that I believe has the +P suspension, despite the 19" wheels. Perhaps that is the difference.
    IMG_7083.jpg
     
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  11. VT_EE

    VT_EE Active Member

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    Any discussion about refunding the cost difference between an 85 and a 70 would need to take into account depreciation too. It might be cheaper to just refund this depreciated difference than to fight this.
     
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  12. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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    I have the + suspension. Wish I didn't. Stiffer than the Z51 on my C5.

    In early 2015, Tesla made P85D more efficient with the introduction of torque sleep that kept the rear motor completely asleep during cruising. Perhaps my statement that the EPA didn't change the rating is wrong and perhaps it was retested by the EPA with the improvement.

    I believe @wk057 thoroughly documented the before and after effects of this improvement.
     
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  13. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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  14. Whiteblaze

    Whiteblaze Member

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  15. mjmiron

    mjmiron Member

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    For Sale 2015 S 85D dark blue
    Every option available
    Dark Black interior
    265 miles oops sorry now 233 due to Tesla

    Was $46,800 now only 36,800
    Car may loose value with future updates including but not limited to slower and reduced available battery capacity.
     
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  16. Blu Zap

    Blu Zap Grinning member

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    Folks, do we want to make a case for battery warranty repair/replacement? If so, drop the discussion about range, wheel size and anything else related to the symptoms of the fix Tesla put in place. FIX? What did Tesla fix? They cut battery capacity as measured in kWh to prevent our 85 kWh batteries from bursting into flames. Quit speculating as to what physically is causing the fires. We need to focus on Tesla's behavior and why they reduced the battery capacity on a certain category of batteries (ours). We have to prove that 1. 85 kWh batteries burst into flames while sitting idle. Examples to start with are Hong Kong and Singapore. 2. We have to prove that Tesla issued 2019.16.1 limiting battery capacity to address the issue. Our problem is not battery performance, range, kw/mi. It is a SAFETY issue. Lets focus on that if we are to get anywhere with Tesla.
     
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  17. mjmiron

    mjmiron Member

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    I think a good follow up question is has anyone gotten any success with getting their battery replaced? I am still waiting for a call back from the local service center. I have also filed a complaint with my local Attorney General which I should know something next week. I think it would be pretty hard to prove both of your points BluZap without hard data from the cars involved in the fires.
     
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  18. verheyleweghen

    verheyleweghen New Member

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    I currently have the same problem and they said it was normal and that the OTA update recalculates a correct range. My range dropped from 378 to 330 whicj is almost 50 km and unacceptable in some weeks
     
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  19. mjmiron

    mjmiron Member

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  20. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    I'm not convinced if this is the case. Their silence in explaining the real reason and resorting to all kinds of distraction points to a different scenario which, in their mind, in secured, at least for now, by being tight-lipped. In my opinion, this is fire related. Either the batteries are showing unexpected behavior (condition Z), or taking conservative route going forward on the usage profile of the batteries, "prolonging" the battery life toward the 8-year warranty line (warranty replacement deflection).

    There is no evidence that the owners were prematurely running out of juice due to erroneous "Remaining Capacity" calculation, pre-update.
     
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