Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[mjmiron]

And this can end up much like Game of Thrones - a big disappointment. Or our cars burning up to a crisp.

Let's hope not that is one of the main reasons I have been installing the updates, and hoping for range to come back too.

 

[CuriousG]

Has anyone with a scan tool brought up to Tesla that the available charge is now limited to 4 volts versus the 4.2? Or shared with them the data before and after the update? I am guessing yes and it didn’t help?

I believe this was mentioned by someone that they don't trust 3rd party apps and use stricktly their own internal tools.

 

[SmartElectric]

You have completely misrepresented or misunderstood my 250 posts in this thread. I have explained the full history of my car, charging characteristics, daily use, etc multiple times.
My car was hit by the 12% further loss of range due to the software updates 2019.16.x. I have not avoided ANY software updates EVER. I have posted the lack of changes and eventual marginal improvement with all 9 updates between May 13 and today.

Weird, I was responding to @sorka not you, but I had a response for you in a different window that wasn't at all a criticism.
I get the downvotes, fair enough, but my point was to Sorka, not you, sorry if the posting system corrupted the quotation.

You mean Tesla battery management, charging system and overall hardware and software engineering excellence managing your degradation right?

Your choices are to specify the maximum SOC to charge to, how often you supercharge
and other variables.

Whereas we just drive our 2013 Tesla S85, charge to 90% daily, 100% most weekends, supercharged hundreds of times and seen no degradation in 4 years. Not a single km in the past 4 years since we bought CPO from Tesla in 2015.

We bought used, the initial degradation of <3% was all under the original owner in 2.5 years.

So what have you actually done to control anything useful, the fact is that you and I both have low degradation, but while we don't do anything special to manage our Tesla, and rely on whatever Tesla does with OTA and it's expert engineering, you in contrast have avoided software updates and otherwise thwarted Tesla's opportunity to keep your car up to date with the best possible options for safety and reliability of your car.

I deal with this in my day job, we have customers in regions of the world that stay on 8 year old code rather than upgrading to the latest security and feature set. It's a way of thinking that keeps innovation and progress down. #sad

 

[Chaserr]

I think @willow_hiller
It is difficult for an individual that is used to defending battery electric vehicles against widespread FUD to walk into this and not have the familiar feeling of needing to jump in and defend.

That's what the antagonists here with no skin and no empaty are acting like, true. They're unaffected, unaware of the topic, andin many cases don't even have a car that could be impacted (until TEsla does this to Model 3s in a few years at least) but perceive a threat to tesla - and FROM tesla - but since they're new they don't know how to react so they blindly defend their favorite corporation.

 

[Chaserr]

I believe this was mentioned by someone that they don't trust 3rd party apps and use stricktly their own internal tools.

Their own tools show the same reduction and they ignore those too - many owners have access to the same tools as service and tesla devs do. Service centers have been instructed to admit nothing, Tesla is planning on losing this in court and doesn't want to lose too quickly.

 

[st50maint]

No, there are true 70 packs affected.

This is not accurate.
My 70D delivered in August of 2015 is affected.
90% in April was 206 miles.
90% now is 182 miles.

 

[mjmiron]

This is not accurate.
My 70D delivered in August of 2015 is affected.
90% in April was 206 miles.
90% now is 182 miles.

Thank you for sharing did you just notice the change or right after the June software update? I am sure you want a fix like most others in the cold states before winter too.

 

[st50maint]

Thank you for sharing did you just notice the change or right after the June software update? I am sure you want a fix like most others in the cold states before winter too.

i did notice weeks ago and posted the findings in this thread at that time.
And you are right. I can deal with the range loss now but my ski trips this winter may be a problem without a fix.

 

[mjmiron]

i did notice weeks ago and posted the findings in this thread at that time.
And you are right. I can deal with the range loss now but my ski trips this winter may be a problem.

got it I have tried to stay on top of this thread but sometimes miss a post. We are hoping for a fix but we will see if there is more software updates that gradually improve the mileage.

 

[efusco]

Moderator Comment:
Giving one and only one warning here. The behavior in this thread is deplorable-I've moved some of the more recent and most egregious stuff to Snippiness, but at 160 pages it's not possible to get rid of everything. Direct action has been taken on some members already.

Any and all posts need to be DIRECTLY in context to the original post in the thread and directly related to battery degradation by the software update. If there are any more personal attacks, racist comments about language, or other ad hominim comments regarding a poster's intentions they will be dealt with directly and harshly. This is ridiculous. I've got a very short fuse for this stuff this week and I won't feel bad when you tell me "so and so started it".

 

[Bert7591]

Lost 20km of max charging within 2 weeks on my S85D. At the 12th of May I was able to charge to 399km at 100% charge. 2 days ago the max charge has dropped to 379km all of a sudden. Temperatures at both charge times were around 18 degrees Celsius.

Called Tesla and they’re telling me the car logs show battery degradation and saying this is “normal”. Has anyone on this forum ever had such a steep loss of max range in such a short period? 5% loss of the max capacity in 2 weeks seems a bit much...
View attachment 415328

Had the same experience.
It has dropped, after the software update, from 364 to 320 km. (on the screen; in reel life from about 450 to 375km!)
Called Tesla and they the let me make an appointment at the service centre.
Came today, they told me it was a "normal" degradation, only the calculations of the distant was different and therefore more "realistic".
When I asked that apparently the odometer also more than 10% was effected they only laughed but were not able to explain the reason of a drop of more than 10%.
I have driven almost 200.000 km with my Tesla, and drive for the most part distances of around 300km, so I know exactly what the range was.
So don't lie to me, in more than 5 years the battery degraded for about 3% and than in one night 14%?!
Tesla degraded, whithout my permission, my 85 kWh car to a 75 kWh car.
Mayby we also need a guy as David Rasmussen who started a lawsuit against Tesla for illigal altering and decreasing of his battery properties.

 

[DaveBC]

Had the same experience.
It has dropped, after the software update, from 364 to 320 km. (on the screen; in reel life from about 450 to 375km!)

Can you share more details of your vehicle manufacturing date and model?

 

[MayoOK]

Another update. Here's a text I got this morning.

Good morning, our technicians found your vehicle was limited in charging to it max limit due to previous issue of internal HV battery failures. Escalated vehicle to Service engineering and engineering team remotely removed limitation. Vehicle confirmed by engineering to be working as designed at this time. Thank you.

 

[scottm]

If Tesla had allocated an inaccessible 10% battery buffer at the top end, and sold its vehicles that way, I wonder if this issue would have been tamed? Much like there's an anti-bricking buffer at the bottom end that we can't use for driving. It is for battery protection only.

In other words, a "full charge" would be to battery's 90% physical capacity. There would be no such thing as 100% capacity charge. And yes, over time this "full charge" may give diminishing range as battery degrades, BUT maybe more slowly than if "top end damage" was allowed by hitting 100% physical limit.

That would have also meant that people could zoom up to full charge at the supercharger and get out, because we'd never see that long stretch out into ultra-thin taper area. Much like software limited 60 kw cars see.

I think one of the other EV makers (Jag or Audi) are not giving the top end to the users... They're giving a good chunk in the middle. And yes, it affects the advertised range - it is less. But in these cases the maker has considered it to be a good hedge against degradation warranty claims - the thing that Tesla is now faced head on.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I believe this was mentioned by someone that they don't trust 3rd party apps and use stricktly their own internal tools.

I have certainly read that they employ this policy. Of course we can always say, if you dispute the figures feel free to show your own, and we can discuss.

I wonder if arbitration services or courts would be so picky.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

If Tesla had allocated an inaccessible 10% battery buffer at the top end, and sold its vehicles that way, I wonder if this issue would have been tamed? Much like there's an anti-bricking buffer at the bottom end that we can't use for driving. It is for battery protection only.

In other words, a "full charge" would be to battery's 90% physical capacity. There would be no such thing as 100% capacity charge.

That would have also meant that people could zoom up to full charge at the supercharger and get out, because we'd never see that long stretch out into ultra-thin taper area. Much like software limited 60 kw cars see.

I think that is a credible solution. Give us slightly larger batteries, capped to our original size, ie a 75 capped to 70. That would be enough for me to walk away.

 

[KidDoc]

Another update. Here's a text I got this morning.

Good morning, our technicians found your vehicle was limited in charging to it max limit due to previous issue of internal HV battery failures. Escalated vehicle to Service engineering and engineering team remotely removed limitation. Vehicle confirmed by engineering to be working as designed at this time. Thank you.

It blows my mind that Tesla thinks they can just cut off range and hope we don't notice. How hard would it be for them to just send out a service bulletin being honest and saying why they are doing it?

I am really disappointed with their lack of transparency and poor communication.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Another update. Here's a text I got this morning.

Good morning, our technicians found your vehicle was limited in charging to it max limit due to previous issue of internal HV battery failures. Escalated vehicle to Service engineering and engineering team remotely removed limitation. Vehicle confirmed by engineering to be working as designed at this time. Thank you.

Roll out the banners, sound the fanfare! I think this may be the first time I have read of anyone having the limitation lifted. Really good news. Particularly if it’s a new policy.

 

[scottm]

Is Tesla at least offering a "refurb option" for people who find their battery has fallen to something below what they need for range?

Nobody expects or said batteries will last the life of the car. Inevitably, they will get to a point of "hey I want to replace my battery".

So, when the time comes for me, can I just get a new or refurb'd pack? Straight up with a price tag?

I would hate to think my whole car is "over" when its original pack is no longer delivering the range I need.

I would pay for a new or refurb battery. It was in my head that when I bought the car I'd be able to do that "in ten years" or so... even by then, something aftermarket if Tesla isn't on the ball enough (or maybe ... off the face of the earth by then).

 

[Moorebid]

I think one of the other EV makers (Jag or Audi) are not giving the top end to the users... They're giving a good chunk in the middle. And yes, it affects the advertised range - it is less. But in these cases the maker has considered it to be a good hedge against degradation warranty claims - the thing that Tesla is now faced head on.

It only affects the advertised range in that they can't advertise as much as the battery could potentially achieve if it was allowed to be fully charged; it actually protects them against false advertising claims in the long run by advertising a smaller range that they're more likely to be able to sustain over the warranty period.

Straight out of the Montgomery Scott School of Engineering: underpromise and overdeliver.