There are quite a few scattered across a bunch of different threads. It usually starts with someone worrying about a 2 mile change and getting all the usual responses on BMS estimation error, etc. There are a number peppered in there that look more suspicious though. Here's mine:
Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
There are quite a few scattered across a bunch of different threads. It usually starts with someone worrying about a 2 mile change and getting all the usual responses on BMS estimation error, etc. There are a number peppered in there that look more suspicious though. Here's mine:
I've noticed 2 'sudden loss of range' on my LR Model 3. I was at 310 miles @100% then went to 305ish for a while and then just last week I'm hitting 291/292 after 2019.28.3.1 f9e95acd was installed.
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I've reported the same exact range drop on my Raven Model X and some folks kept saying it's normal and stop whining. Glad to see data throwing out there to support the drop in range. It's definitely across the board not "older" models.
In fact, I was using a little solar device charger and was hooked up to someone's open wifi. The car and my phone had zero connectivity through At&t. I was not staying at a hotel.
Az_Rael
Supporting Member
Yikes!
291/292 on an LR!!! That is my daily 90%.
I guess 3 owners at least have a "bottom" at which point we can claim "degradation" for a warranty claim. (Even though we all know it is not degradation).
It's pretty wild that my Model 3 LR is "showing" more battery degradation than my 2016 Model X 90D. The 90 batteries seemingly have seen the greatest degradation (from what I've seen here on TMC)... Interesting stuff going on right now with these batteries.
Tweet Elon. He will never read that here. He's addicted to Twitter like Trump.
There are a lot of posts about claiming other batteries being affected including the model 3 but really we don't know if these are the same issue unless you provide canbus data for cell voltage at 100%.
The teslafi graphs being shown could be actual degration, only way to tell for sure is cell voltage at 100%
The teslafi graphs being shown could be actual degration, only way to tell for sure is cell voltage at 100%
SmartElectric
Active Member
Cool. So what you are saying is that your car was still able to get you to and from a location that had no electrical or cell service, and your concern/contention is that charging to 100% is an imposition in this case. Got it.
jerseygirl18
jersey girl
i hate to say it, but this reminds of of updating an older iPhone with a new IOS...it always takes more ram & slows the phone...could it be that simple???
And when towing.. and cold winter trips... and when superchargers, destination chargers, fast chargers are not in the area and you are not staying where there is electricity or the cooperation to use it. Now with the latest charge to 90% of only 189 miles, I could not make it back to that location which I go there currently 3-4 times a year during the summer to escape the Valley heat.
There is one hotel in the area that will only let you use the destination charger if you stay there and they tack on an extra $20 a night to the room rate. During the summer season it is also packed and you would be lucky to get a room even if you wanted to. Other electric vehicle owners have tried to offer them money to charge without having a room and are flatly denied even when needing an emergency charge.
I have a shaky agreement (change at a whim) with a over 55 RV park for level 2 charging without staying at their location. The problem is it is usually full and no place to charge. Even if I get lucky and a spot is open, it is many hours of charging and waiting around. There is a car dealer there that has let me charge from their wheel balance outlet but it is low amps and takes what seems like forever...
We stay at a friends modular that has no electricity so I haul up 5 marine batteries and a couple of solar panels to get by... In my buddies case the power company wanted $15,000 to hook him up and he opted out. I taught him how to use batteries but he is too squeaky to buy solar and refuses to install gas.
There are many, many, parts of this Country and I assume others that are faced with some of these difficulties when trying to use their electrics to replace ICE.
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Guy V
Member
To put this in perspective for the Model 3 folks feeling comfortable with their 70% degradation warranty, 70% of 310 is 217, and charging to 90% of that only leaves 195 miles of range, which puts them pretty close to your situation to deal with weather, terrain and traffic conditions.And when towing.. and cold winter trips... and when superchargers, destination chargers, fast chargers are not in the area and you are not staying where there is electricity or the cooperation to use it. Now with the latest charge to 90% of only 189 miles, I could not make it back to that location which I go there currently 3-4 times a year during the summer to escape the Valley heat.
There is one hotel in the area that will only let you use the destination charger if you stay there and they tack on an extra $20 a night to the room rate. During the summer season it is also packed and you would be lucky to get a room even if you wanted to. Other electric vehicle owners have tried to offer them money to charge without having a room and are flatly denied even when needing an emergency charge.
I have a shaky agreement (change at a whim) with a over 55 RV park for level 2 charging without staying at their location. The problem is it is usually full and no place to charge. Even if I get lucky and a spot is open, it is many hours of charging and waiting around. There is a car dealer there that has let me charge from their wheel balance outlet but it is low amps and takes what seems like forever...
We stay at a friends modular that has no electricity so I haul up 5 marine batteries and a couple of solar panels to get by... In my buddies case the power company wanted $15,000 to hook him up and he opted out. I taught him how to use batteries but he is too squeaky to buy solar and refuses to install gas.
There are many, many, parts of this Country and I assume others that are faced with some of these difficulties when trying to use their electrics to replace ICE.
It’s interesting that @bedoig’s graph shows a sudden range drop for his M3 while @HostileHarry’s shows what looks like gradual degradation.
Someone has already asked if anyone can measure the voltage on the M3 packs via the canvas to see what is going on.
Is anyone able to share such information?
We could ask Tesla of course but the silence would be deafening...
Someone has already asked if anyone can measure the voltage on the M3 packs via the canvas to see what is going on.
Is anyone able to share such information?
We could ask Tesla of course but the silence would be deafening...
There's not one credible report of voltage caps on Model 3 batteries yet (there are small fluctuations in estimated range and I have them as well, but they do not affect real range --which in my case is usually smaller than estimated range when range is an issue-- one whit in my case).
The "this is much bigger than we initially thought" is pure groupthink. I think focus is important in these discussions: there are two real issues, which is a max. voltage cap on some 85kWh batteries and a lower than expected charging rate at superchargers, possibly on more cars (which is easier to explain by Tesla trying to control temperature after having discovered some local heating that could degrade cells faster; after all some of the battery pack designs also drop in charge rate quite fast due to thermal issues, and that's a design issue, not a warranty issue).
It would be good if Tesla would explain these two, although they've always been quite secretive about the battery management system (which Tesla considers to be one of its highly proprietary crown jewels).
Adding other issues as "similar" when they aren't similar and only supported by the flimsiest of non-evidence is not going to make matters any better, whether trying to coax Tesla to be more transparent or even if anyone here would be contemplating legal action.
The "this is much bigger than we initially thought" is pure groupthink. I think focus is important in these discussions: there are two real issues, which is a max. voltage cap on some 85kWh batteries and a lower than expected charging rate at superchargers, possibly on more cars (which is easier to explain by Tesla trying to control temperature after having discovered some local heating that could degrade cells faster; after all some of the battery pack designs also drop in charge rate quite fast due to thermal issues, and that's a design issue, not a warranty issue).
It would be good if Tesla would explain these two, although they've always been quite secretive about the battery management system (which Tesla considers to be one of its highly proprietary crown jewels).
Adding other issues as "similar" when they aren't similar and only supported by the flimsiest of non-evidence is not going to make matters any better, whether trying to coax Tesla to be more transparent or even if anyone here would be contemplating legal action.
Does not make sense as the required battery temperature for optimal charging speed now is significantly higher than before the charge rate was reduced. Max rate would be achieved at 30-32 deg C before, but the max (reduced) rate now requires 36+ deg C.
My car is preheating the battery to 45C before reaching a supercharger now, and holding steady at the preheat temp. They're trying to keep the temps well over 100F before you even get to a supercharger, and this seems to be related to the update that was supposed to increase charge speeds. I'm still reduced, but temps are way up.
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