Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Allow me to lump myself in…
2012 Model S Signature Edition — original 85 kWh pack w/~65k miles on it, went from ~76 kWH full charge as recently as a couple months ago to ~71 kWH a couple weeks ago. Just as troubling for me, if not moreso: whereas previously I could charge upwards of ~95% and still have full regen, now I start losing regen somewhere in the low-to-mid-80s — haven't quite narrowed it down yet.
Also potentially worth noting: I started seeing 60 kW max supercharging within the last month or so, though that spontaneously went away within the last week.
2012 Model S Signature Edition — original 85 kWh pack w/~65k miles on it, went from ~76 kWH full charge as recently as a couple months ago to ~71 kWH a couple weeks ago. Just as troubling for me, if not moreso: whereas previously I could charge upwards of ~95% and still have full regen, now I start losing regen somewhere in the low-to-mid-80s — haven't quite narrowed it down yet.
Also potentially worth noting: I started seeing 60 kW max supercharging within the last month or so, though that spontaneously went away within the last week.
@faughtz Replying here to how you're going to approach service (didn't want to split the discussion here into the "battery report" thread I started).
1) It's not normal degradation regardless of their explanation. Normal degradation doesn't show range falling off the cliff.
2) The change in range is real. Your battery is not charging to 4.2 volts any more. You've done enough driving before and after the update to know that the range you had before is real and the loss of range you have now is also real and not just some sort of change in calculation.
3) Bring the scatter plot along with you that shows the range (y) vs miles (x) that includes hundreds of cars over many miles to show them what normal degradation is.
4) Bring your individual battery chart. Feel free to bring mine as a counter example of someone who is NOT yet on 16.2+.
5) Demand that they replace the battery with one that has a NORMAL amount of degradation. Tell them you'd be happy to accept a software fix instead that allows your battery to charge to 100% (4.2 volts).
Fleet scatter plot:
There are some outliers there because the plot includes cars that have bad batteries.
1) It's not normal degradation regardless of their explanation. Normal degradation doesn't show range falling off the cliff.
2) The change in range is real. Your battery is not charging to 4.2 volts any more. You've done enough driving before and after the update to know that the range you had before is real and the loss of range you have now is also real and not just some sort of change in calculation.
3) Bring the scatter plot along with you that shows the range (y) vs miles (x) that includes hundreds of cars over many miles to show them what normal degradation is.
4) Bring your individual battery chart. Feel free to bring mine as a counter example of someone who is NOT yet on 16.2+.
5) Demand that they replace the battery with one that has a NORMAL amount of degradation. Tell them you'd be happy to accept a software fix instead that allows your battery to charge to 100% (4.2 volts).
Fleet scatter plot:
There are some outliers there because the plot includes cars that have bad batteries.
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I have not supercharged, no. I charge at home. Is supercharging the trigger to this range loss?
faughtz
Model S P85DL
@faughtz Replying here to how you're going to approach service (didn't want to split the discussion here into the "battery report" thread I started).
1) It's not normal degradation regardless of their explanation. Normal degradation doesn't show range falling off the cliff.
2) The change in range is real. Your battery is not charging to 4.2 volts any more. You've done enough driving before and after the update to know that the range you had before is real and the loss of range you have now is also real and not just some sort of change in calculation.
3) Bring the scatter plot along with you that shows the range (y) vs miles (x) that includes hundreds of cars over many miles to show them what normal degradation is.
4) Bring your individual battery chart. Feel free to bring mine as a counter example of someone who is NOT yet on 16.2+.
5) Demand that they replace the battery with one that has a NORMAL amount of degradation. Tell them you'd be happy to accept a software fix instead that allows your battery to charge to 100% (4.2 volts).
Fleet scatter plot:
There are some outliers there because the plot includes cars that have bad batteries.
I agree with all of your thoughts above, except for the characterization that this is battery degradation. This is the result of a software change implemented to protect tesla. And remember the service people are stuck in the middle, and prob know far less than you (us). I posted some of my data in 44 above, and texts with tesla in 61 and 64.
Right. Agree totally. I just mean that THEY will try to characterize this as normal degradation when it's not any kind of degradation normal or otherwise.
I charged to 99% today and when I checked at 99% voltage was around 4.19, but after charging was complete after I left, I came back after 5 minutes and the voltage was 4.16 avg but still showing 99%.
Does that make sense? Are the batteries just settling?
Does that make sense? Are the batteries just settling?
The batteries do settle but the voltage after several minutes is what you check, not what it is when you're actually charging it.
You probably have a very small amount of artificial range reduction. What was the diff between min and max if your avarage for 4.16?
I don't know, that metric has never been particularly useful to me; it's seldom accurate in my region — given fluctuations in terrain and temperature, and I almost never charge to 100% anyway (seldom charge above 90%, except the last couple times I supercharged it went from ~25 to 90% before I was finished with my meal — which is much quicker than usual, barely cresting 80% on most charges).
I don't remember but I logged the charging session for future reference.
I don't believe I have been affected on 16.2, I still have the same 71.8 kwh I had over the past year
OK, but you should know what your Rated Miles were at 80% (or whatever you typically charge to) before and what it is now (after update).
faughtz
Model S P85DL
It’s hard to get a good dataset, so it’s not clear. My loss, and and at least some others, were after 16.2 and supercharging. If you supercharge and don’t suffer the loss, that would be data.
Remember when Tesla limited the power of performance vehicles after too many launches with ‘launch mode’ back in 2016? Owners weren't happy and made it public. I suspect the same will happen here or I can see lawyers getting involved. If you average the mileage loss if effect the value of the car. (example 85KW battery equipped cars only have the range of a 70 KW battery equipped car now). That effect resale value, all cars effected have been neutered.
No, I really don't; I can't even remember the last time I switched between percentage and range — probably at least a year, and even then only to chuckle at its optimism.
DJRas
Supporting Member
I have a new appointment for Tuesday July 2.
I now feel more confident in my data and my ability to read what data they present me (though I cannot take it with me) to make an intelligent understanding and arguments.
My car is the dot in the middle (side to side) at the bottom edge
Did not mean switching between % and miles on your display. Meant the % you have charge to, on the charging app screen where you set your charge % limit.
This is just so bad. Your car is basically off that chart.
BTW, I do not see you on the sheet anymore, what was your loss percentages?
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