also thanks to @DJRas for taking action to see what can done about this. Personally I'm hoping for more information to come out of the process, so that I can figure out what is really going on with my car and make an actual informed decision about the state of its software.
Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
One thing I don't quite understand is this: Tesla's conduct in all this situation is abhorrent and the fact they allow themselves to treat owners as bunch of idiots is beyond the pail. WHY Tesla does not seem to suffer any consequences so far? This should be a publicity nightmare that should affect their sales, but I don't see any evidence of that, why?
Because tesla/elon musk are protected from that somehow and by the powers that be. No way musk is behind this company ALONE and still burns cash on the lame mars crap but cant make the cars right?
Just like no way that clown zuckerberg was/is behind facebook. Wake up.
Tesla is SLOW to change example I bought my used car from them in May no good pics. Now if you look at used they have updated pics of the real car and scratches highlighted . All because people complained and they listened.
Nothing moves fast at Tesla except an uncapped car. Sorry had to add that joke but it’s true.
The truth will come out it just sucks [email protected] we have to wait.
Nothing moves fast at Tesla except an uncapped car. Sorry had to add that joke but it’s true.
The truth will come out it just sucks [email protected] we have to wait.
The diagnostic connector, not the OBDII port. The OBDII port only provides 12 volt power and nothing else.
Math may not lie, but lawyers will be the ones talking...
Math doesn't stand a chance.
It provides quite a bit more than 12V if you have a 2013 or later. The CAN signal lines are active, and you can both send and receive CAN signals over the port.
Do you have a source for that?
My 2015 doesn't. In fact, there are only two wires going to the OBDII connector to the left of the footwell. I run my BlackVue from it. The only sources of CANBUS lines I'm aware of are on the DLC connector that everyone uses with an Elm327 and SMT or TM-SPY with the appropriate translating cable of course.
QUOTE="sorka, post: 4034047, member: 33031"]Do you have a source for that?
My 2015 doesn't. In fact, there are only two wires going to the OBDII connector to the left of the footwell. I run my BlackVue from it. The only sources of CANBUS lines I'm aware of are on the DLC connector that everyone uses with an Elm327 and SMT or TM-SPY with the appropriate translating cable of course.[/QUOTE]
Yes, best source would be tinkla.us. Check documentation on the giraffe. The other place is to just see it in action on my car, as I send signals over the can bus and tell my car to autosteer + ACC, on my pre AP 2013.
Come to think of it, the giraffe provides most of the can signals out, so the obd2 port definitely doesn't have the full obd2 signals set.
My 2015 doesn't. In fact, there are only two wires going to the OBDII connector to the left of the footwell. I run my BlackVue from it. The only sources of CANBUS lines I'm aware of are on the DLC connector that everyone uses with an Elm327 and SMT or TM-SPY with the appropriate translating cable of course.[/QUOTE]
Yes, best source would be tinkla.us. Check documentation on the giraffe. The other place is to just see it in action on my car, as I send signals over the can bus and tell my car to autosteer + ACC, on my pre AP 2013.
Come to think of it, the giraffe provides most of the can signals out, so the obd2 port definitely doesn't have the full obd2 signals set.
You're controlling your cars steering through the OBDII port on the left side drivers footwell and NOT the DLC in the center underneath the cubby?
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@Ferrycraigs , thanks a lot! Yes indeed for now this precision level is enough.
Just to make sure, does the calculated capacity include or exclude the 4 kWh "reserve" that everyone mentions?
My guess is that these 4 kWh are NOT included in the resulting figure? Otherwise the display would by design show projected kms which are not meant to be driven. Exactly the opposite of what's intended by setting aside a reserve.
And yes, I'm aware that the 85 kWh pack's capacity is in fact around 81 kWh so I would expect a "new" battery to show a max usable capacity of 77 kWh. Correct?
Ferrycraigs
Member
I’m pretty confident the Energy Graph only includes Useable Capacity, ie does NOT include the buffer.
Research indicates the original 85 battery had 81.5 kWh Capacity, of which 77.5 kWh was available for use. My 70 kWh battery lost about 2 kWh initially, stayed at that level for over 3 years, then dropped to 59 kWhs after the 2019.16.1.1 download. So I would expect an uncapped 85 battery to show about 75 kWh +/-, and a capped battery to show around 10 kWh less +/-, so around mid 60s.
jaitch
Member
In the future they may even list their used cars with the actual range achievable shown (not the brand new zero deg range). But that would require an honesty phase shift so I am not so sure.
Yes that's 100% correct.
However, the port may still be pretty dumb and the giraffe is doing all the work and just tapping into the canbus using the wiring we make for the power steering cable. There has to be some kind of can signals coming back and forth from the obd2 port though, because otherwise the commands for ACC wouldn't make to the car to control the cruise control settings.
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I look at this as Tesla currently being able to enjoy dancing in a gray area that is not well defined. Before Tesla, no manufacturer pushed updates that could make operability changes to a car that take things away, so there is no legislation to prevent such "theft". I suspect Tesla knows exactly what they can get away with. For example, they've set a precedent with the Model 3 in that you should expect at least 70% of your battery capacity during the warranty period. Even though the Model S/X doesn't specify, they can always say "Your battery still has 82% of its original capacity which is considered within the norm".
In a sense, they can pave the way for such legislation based on what they do and how much consumers are willing to accept. I'll give you an example from my own work. I write software related to digital photography and years ago I caught Adobe violating the specification for JPEG images. In fact, an update to Photoshop at the time was inserting data into the JPEG header that was specifically prohibited by the JPEG spec and caused problems when other (non-Adobe) software tried to read JPEG images saved from Photoshop. Many other companies (including mine) complained that Adobe was violating the spec and Adobe's response (after much deliberation) was "Yeah, technically we are violating the spec but...". They never changed it and all other companies were forced to modify their code to accept the violation. Companies like mine just wanted our software to work and we knew it'd take a lot of time and effort to get the big company to change, so in a sense, we allowed them to get away with the violation by accepting it, thereby allowing Adobe to informally "rewrite" the JPEG specification (an international standard where they have no authority) and do what they want.
The point of all this is, if you are not loud enough, the companies in the lead will just pave their own way, whether it's right or wrong. And they'll end up getting... whatever they can get away with. So I'm glad this thread exists.
Mike
From my understanding and what I see the Energy Graph is only the usable. This is where some of the confusion comes in with people who use TM-Spy because it shows the 4kWh buffer and it messes up the graph. So when the car reads zero TM-Spy will show about 5% depending on the pack size.
So, you agree with @Ferrycraigs's recommended formula to be a good approximation of the pack's capacity?
When I bought my car in 2013 the common lore was if the battery degraded 30% or more from new during the warranty period then Tesla would replace it. This was supposedly Tesla's internal metric. Based on previous posts in this thread it appears Tesla's internal metric is 30% below fleet average, not 30% below new. Those are two very different things. Comparing degradation to fleet average guarantees that Tesla will replace as few batteries as possible.
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