Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Ferrycraigs]

Hey all, I have a little bit of info to share.

I talked to someone in Tesla service that I know..this is someone I know better than just as a random customer/Tesla employee relationship.

Wanted to pass on that Tesla was over-aggressive in the voltage cap of the firmware update, and they are working on a firmware fix to lessen the impact. It doesn't add much info, and I don't really have more details to share, but my impression is that Tesla is working hard to lessen the range loss many of us have experienced. No estimate on any sort of timeframes or anything else...but I get the impression that they are definitely working on the problem.

Before you ask, no I don't have any more information and can't elaborate on this. You all now know as much as I do .

Encouraging and thank you for sharing. But a bit like 2019.28.2.5 which gave back a very little, I don’t really want back some, or a lot of the loss. I would like it all back. To me it’s pretty simple. If there is truly nothing wrong with the battery, then lift the cap completely. If, as I suspect, there IS an issue (it doesn’t have to be a fault, but they capped us for a reason, not due to random selection) with the few batteries affected, then change the battery. I don’t think it’s credible for Tesla to rely on both sides of that equation.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

The 59.1 kWh shown by TM-Spy is the CURRENT BMS maximum capacity of your battery.
Since you are charged all the way to 100% your remaining of 59.0 kWh is 100% (well 99.8%) of the entire charge possible.
At 100% (and ONLY at 100%) the TM-Spy SOC equals the User Interface SOC 100%

So, it is reporting 100% of the Vmax charge level (whatever your Vmax happens to be set at).


The Projected range DOES take into account your recent drive, driving style, and route to destination (including elevation changes).
This IS a complicated formula that they use... but clearly trade secret.

Got it. They ONLY match at 100%. I understand now. I’m sure I did notice a discrepancy between them on the way up to 100%. I will record the differences the next time.

 

[CuriousG]

After a month and a half of not being able to connect to the Tesla app and not being able to receive firmware updates (failure), brought in car to SC. Initially they told me there would be a $97.50 diagnostic fee but that was later waived. I'm sure their firmware update had something to do with it initially as the tech had to work with an engineer to upload a custom firmware just so they could apply two more firmwares to make the car communicate again through the VPN and restore app access. Meanwhile WiFi and Bluetooth failed within the last week too but that was also restored.

I had lost another mile during that time so this was the first time Supercharger with the newer firmware 2019.32.2.2. Gained 2 more miles so my net loss is now 23 miles since the sudden degradation.

Had a loaner 75D for 3 days and noticed regen is much stronger so I'm not sure if it's the battery cap or just much newer car.

 

[FooFenix]

On the range/battery capping issue: could it be that what Tesla is trying to achieve is that all fleet averages worsen much quicker than the trends until now? With the double objective of

1. trying to get the affected owners to accept this as degradation and 'protection' (perhaps choosing them amongst the batteries most likely to lead to replacement claims within 8 years, hence weakening these claims later). It's conceivable they will continue to extend the impacted fleet;

2. Bringing the averages down progressively, hence non-capped batteries will be compared with a (artificially) less performing fleet and hence never be eligible

... probably others have posted this hypothesis earlier, but I haven't read it...

 

[mjmiron]

After a month and a half of not being able to connect to the Tesla app and not being able to receive firmware updates (failure), brought in car to SC. Initially they told me there would be a $97.50 diagnostic fee but that was later waived. I'm sure their firmware update had something to do with it initially as the tech had to work with an engineer to upload a custom firmware just so they could apply two more firmwares to make the car communicate again through the VPN and restore app access. Meanwhile WiFi and Bluetooth failed within the last week too but that was also restored.

I had lost another mile during that time so this was the first time Supercharger with the newer firmware 2019.32.2.2. Gained 2 more miles so my net loss is now 23 miles since the sudden degradation.

Had a loaner 75D for 3 days and noticed regen is much stronger so I'm not sure if it's the battery cap or just much newer car.

I posted on another thread they also charge 77.00 for diagnosing rattles in the front end too. They waived my fee but man these guys are looking for money any way they can get it

 

[Droschke]

On the range/battery capping issue: could it be that what Tesla is trying to achieve is that all fleet averages worsen much quicker than the trends until now? With the double objective of

1. trying to get the affected owners to accept this as degradation and 'protection' (perhaps choosing them amongst the batteries most likely to lead to replacement claims within 8 years, hence weakening these claims later). It's conceivable they will continue to extend the impacted fleet;

2. Bringing the averages down progressively, hence non-capped batteries will be compared with a (artificially) less performing fleet and hence never be eligible

... probably others have posted this hypothesis earlier, but I haven't read it...

Agree.

With the exception of replacing the dead batteries under warranty (they are still honoring it), their behavior, and your scenarios, definitely point to a deliberate approach to deny any warranty replacement due to any degradation by setting the average fleet data to a manipulated metric and maintaining it as a moving target.

 

[VT_EE]

Agree.

With the exception of replacing the dead batteries under warranty (they are still honoring it), their behavior, and your scenarios, definitely point to a deliberate approach to deny any warranty replacement due to any degradation by setting the average fleet data to a manipulated metric and maintaining it as a moving target.

You are making the assumption that Tesla’s internal “fleet average” metric is being manipulated to their benefit. If you have some insight into how Tesla determines their fleet average, please share.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I posted on another thread they also charge 77.00 for diagnosing rattles in the front end too. They waived my fee but man these guys are looking for money any way they can get it

Wait a minute, aren't rattles covered under your bumper-to-bumper warranty?

 

[DJRas]

You are making the assumption that Tesla’s internal “fleet average” metric is being manipulated to their benefit. If you have some insight into how Tesla determines their fleet average, please share.

You are kidding!!!!
Aren't you???
They get over-the-air data on EVERY car in the fleet (that has data access - 3g, lte, wifi). Their computers accumulate data 24/7.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

You are making the assumption that Tesla’s internal “fleet average” metric is being manipulated to their benefit. If you have some insight into how Tesla determines their fleet average, please share.

I think it must be indisputable that using a fleet average rather than an 'As New' average, must be in their interest. And an ageing fleet average keeps moving the goal posts further and further away from the owner. So they are not interested in a battery that may have lost, say, 30% capacity, but would only be interested in a battery that has lost 30% more than the fleet average. Whilst I can see the fairness in comparing it to the fleet, I would have thought that any battery that had lost 30% within 3 or 4 years must be suspect.

 

[swegman]

Had a loaner 75D for 3 days and noticed regen is much stronger so I'm not sure if it's the battery cap or just much newer car.

The lower regen is the result of the capping. In my car, if I charge to 100%, the yellow dashed line shows on the instrument cluster (IC) as being limited to a bit less than 45 kW. However, when I lift my foot off the accelerator, there is no (zero) regen at all. The car coasts like an ICE car. When the SOC falls to about 90% the yellow line on the IC disappears but the amount of regen I get is still less than before.

I had my model 3 in for service this week and was given a P85 loaner (which had a 90kWh battery installed). Comparing the regen in the loaner to my capped P85, the regen in the loaner car felt about twice as strong as in my capped car. I used to be able to essentially drive using just one peddle most of the time ( the regen would stop the car). That is no longer the case. The ScanMyTesla app also shows a reduction in regen on my car.

 

[raphy3]

You are making the assumption that Tesla’s internal “fleet average” metric is being manipulated to their benefit. If you have some insight into how Tesla determines their fleet average, please share.

uh, perhaps it's the capped batteries that are cropping up a dime a dozen right now, huh? What's been talked about over and over in this thread which is brining down the fleet average range for 85s.... Several members of this forum have already commented that Tesla is telling them their new range is "within range of the fleet average".

Well, they better not get me in there with that kind of hand waviness; they'll have to tell me how many sigma and show the data an how they calculate the average.

 

[Keshk]

Naïve question: How do I find which battery do I have on my model S car. Is it on the original sales paper, or embossed / printed on a label on the car?

 

[Robbie]

Naïve question: How do I find which battery do I have on my model S car. Is it on the original sales paper, or embossed / printed on a label on the car?

Look in the front passenger side wheel well outside the car. There's a label with the number. You might need to turn the wheel to the right to get a clearer view. There's also lots of postings in the forums on this you can search for more information.

 

[DJRas]

Naïve question: How do I find which battery do I have on my model S car. Is it on the original sales paper, or embossed / printed on a label on the car?

It is on a visible sticker if you look under the car behind the right front wheel.
I will look like this

 

[Robbie]

I'm taking my capped 2015 Model S 85 in for service in a couple of weeks for a clunking noise in the rear from deceleration to acceleration and wanted to make an issue (again) about my loss of 30 miles range. I have Scan My Tesla data showing my max charge is 9.1 volts. I was wondering if I were to show this data from an un-capped similar car charging to 9.2 volts that I would be able to make a reasonable argument that they should replace the battery. Can someone here help me with this and provide screen shots of their car showing 9.2 volts? It is a simple argument that I wanted to make and see their response. My car also has 123K miles and is RWD.

 

[raphy3]

I'm taking my capped 2015 Model S 85 in for service in a couple of weeks for a clunking noise in the rear from deceleration to acceleration and wanted to make an issue (again) about my loss of 30 miles range. I have Scan My Tesla data showing my max charge is 9.1 volts. I was wondering if I were to show this data from an un-capped similar car charging to 9.2 volts that I would be able to make a reasonable argument that they should replace the battery. Can someone here help me with this and provide screen shots of their car showing 9.2 volts? It is a simple argument that I wanted to make and see their response. My car also has 123K miles and is RWD.

I think you mean 4.1 and 4.2 volts, right?

 

[Robbie]

I think you mean 4.1 and 4.2 volts, right?

My car maxes out at 9.1v. I need to show a healthy car charging to 9.2v to argue that my battery isn't working correctly.

 

[Lukez]

My car maxes out at 9.1v. I need to show a healthy car charging to 9.2v to argue that my battery isn't working correctly.

Screenshot? You are mistaken or looking at something wrong. It's 4.2 volts max for uncapped car. Here is mine at 99%

 

[swegman]

... they better not get me in there with that kind of hand waviness; they'll have to tell me how many sigma and show the data an how they calculate the average.

Good luck with that. They will never tell you, because the people at the service centers have no idea.

Most people that get a CAC test done on their battery only receive a verbal report as to the condition of the battery. They never receive any report in writing.

I was fortunate in that Tesla let me look at the results of the various CAC tests done on my battery since July. While I was shown the actual screen results from each test, I was told that I could not photograph the screens, nor was I allowed to take any written notes.

The test results contain a 4 or 5 line summary that indicates the Ah rating of the tested battery and how that compares to the fleet average of the same type battery of the same approximate vintage (age) and mileage. In addition there is a graph with green bars that represent the fleet batteries of the same vintage and mileage and a single red bar that represents the battery under test. The green bars form a bell curve with the highest mid-point representing the average of the fleet batteries, with those to the left being worse than average and those to the right being better than average. There is no indication of how or where this information has been obtained or calculated. The service center personnel don’t know either.

The Ah rating of my battery never changed from the first CAC test to the second CAC test to the third CAC test. Yet the first test indicated my battery was 10 percent worse than the fleet average. The second test indicated my battery to be 10% better than the fleet average, and the last test indicated my battery to be 30% better than the fleet average. As my AH rating didn’t change from one test to another, this implies to me that either the batteries are staring to naturally degrade more (unlikely) or that more and more cars are being capped (more likely) in order to lower the fleet average and thus reduce the number of batteries that need replacing under warranty. Especially in view of Tesla’s recent July 2019 change (according to the service center) that a battery will only now be replaced if it is at least 30% worse than the fleet average for the same vintage (age) battery with similar amount of mileage on the battery. Beforehand, I was told a battery would be replaced if it had degraded by 30% from when new.