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Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Dutchmeeuw, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. ran349

    ran349 Member

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    I don't think that is quite right. Rated miles always equals: (car SOC% per your definition x nominal full value)/charge constant
    So if the charge constant doesn't change, then rated miles change(degradation) is exactly proportional to nominal full value change.
    As far as I know, the buffer value has not ever changed for a given model S configuration. But I don't think that is true for the model 3.
     
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  2. ran349

    ran349 Member

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    Something doesn't seem right. The S70 was only rated for 230 miles when new. My S70D was rated for 240 miles. So if you are at 230 miles right now, you have essentially zero degradation from the original rated value. By comparison, my 70D originally rated for 240 miles, now has 216 miles max, about 10% degradation.
     
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  3. Guy V

    Guy V Member

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    Well, that's where Tesla has us at the moment, and if it becomes the prevailing opinion it is going to wreck them in the marketplace.
     
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  4. Blu Zap

    Blu Zap Grinning member

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    Please, keep the conversation to battery capacity in kWh. Range of any kind will be thrown back in our faces by Tesla. With that they can take in all the driving factors that effect range. Not the discussion. It is all about kWh limitation through restricting battery capacity (voltage). With 2019.16.1 my kWh dropped from 73 kWh to 62 kWh. Don't go past that. It dilutes our case.
     
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  5. Kenz

    Kenz Member

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    "your mileage may vary"
    The BMS and battery degradation is not an exact science and the range shown may not be 100% accurate.
    Batteries naturally degrade differently and are not all 100% uniform.
    Battery use and care will impact your range.
    Try your best to keep the battery between 20 - 80% in most cases.
    Don't charge to 95% or more unless absolutely necessary and do not let the battery SIT at a full charge for hours or days.
    Other than that just charge, go and enjoy.
    Tesla has learned a lot about batteries over the past 10 years and the technology and chemistry keeps improving with the newest models.
    The next generation of batteries will be even better. Early adopters with older vehicles had the best available technology at the time.
     
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  6. Ferrycraigs

    Ferrycraigs Member

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    #7186 Ferrycraigs, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    Surely not more advice on how to avoid battery degradation.

    I would tend to favour that BMS is pretty much an exact science, or at least pretty much exact software that is not alterable by the owner.

    None of what you say is wrong. It is all correct. And it’s good advice. Just off topic. (And many of us on here have been owners for several years, so are probably already aware of these things). The thread is about the deliberate capping of the battery capacity by software upgrade. That’s not degradation. That’s not driving style. That’s not about how much or how little your typical charge level is at. It’s about Tesla, without our permission, and without our knowledge, going into our batteries, in some cases many years after sale, and restricting (not reducing), significantly, the amount of Useable battery made available to us.
     
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  7. liamharry

    liamharry Member

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    I have a 85D with an All pack. Have both batterygate and chargegate. Had 30 miles removed through the update and my usual 100kW charge rate at around 20% is now on average 76kW dropping off to around 46kW at 80%.
     
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  8. liamharry

    liamharry Member

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    Agghh - how do you edit - should say ‘A pack' not ‘All pack’ :(
     
  9. raphy3

    raphy3 Member

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    At the moment some of the original posters are working on a big informational post, along with Djras. If possible it would be nice if folks could hold off for a day or so while it gets finalized.
     
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  10. First EV

    First EV Member

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    Select 'more' at the bottom of your post then 'edit'.
     
  11. bijan

    bijan Member

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    #7191 bijan, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    Not quite SoC as displayed by the car though, as car can display 100% SoC even when there is degradation.

    My SoC definition uses (nominal full pack of current car) in the denominator (this is what the car displays for SoC and can give 100% even if the car degrades since nominal full pack of current car will also degrade). My rated miles definition uses (nominal full pack of brand new car) in denominator and so shouldn't give the EPA rated miles if the car degrades.

    Edit: This is how my car now shows 474km at 100% SoC, when the car should show 499km at 100% SoC when new. This is since nominal full pack is now 72.1kwh, when for new car the value would be 76kwh. 72.1/76 * 499 = 474 (I should have subtracted the buffer from both nominal full pack values, but I don't know what brand new buffer should be, and assume that it decreases linearly as battery degrades, unless Tesla plays around with the buffer).
     
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  12. DJRas

    DJRas Supporting Member

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    The brick buffet stays at 4kWh for our 85s from new to now
     
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  13. Jkr85

    Jkr85 Active Member

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    Spot on and a copy of mine at just over 50% soc:

    152DA55E-842E-4804-ABE7-0484DAA8C630.jpeg
     
    • Informative x 2
  14. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    Is this a poem?

    Whatever it is, it's not relevant to the topic of this thread and the issue involved ;)
     
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  15. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    Have you added yourself to this sheet?
    Tesla battery capacity loss with FW 2019.16.2
     
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  16. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    That isn't the "A" packs that people refer to as "A" packs. The real "A" packs were never able to charge over 90kW. (And were never available in a dual motor Tesla.)
     
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  17. Chaserr

    Chaserr Hyperactive Hyperdrive

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    There are several examples in this thread. It's why we discuss BMS reported kWh capacity and volts, not rated range. Ratings can and probably are manipulated by Tesla to hide the problem from us. Volts can't be hidden, and volts determine actual kWh capacity.

    ^ Listen to Zap. Range is what people who don't know the topic will talk about. We discuss volt caps because it is non subjective. Volt caps impact capacity, power - nearly every aspect of an electric car's performance.
     
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  18. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    Tesla part numbers follow a "Part Number-Subpart Number-Revision Letter" format; ie, my battery is 1014114-00-E. You can only compare revision letters with the same part and subpart numbers. When a new part/subpart number is issued to supercede an old one, the revision letter resets to A. So there is likely an xxxxxxx-yy-A battery that is later than mine.

    In the old days, there was one part/subpart number, and people could just compare the letters (hence the 90kw A's and 120kw B and up). But the original A packs were long gone before the AWD 85D appeared.
     
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  19. tomas

    tomas Out of warranty...

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    If you have an A pack, you NEVER got 100 kW charging. NEVER

    oops, Mike got there first...
     
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  20. bijan

    bijan Member

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    On this topic. Model 3 long range AWD is going to get "upgraded" from 499km range to 518km range. Just as long range RWD was upgraded from 499km to 525km. If I get this upgrade I'll only be down 1.4% in miles, but still 5% in kWh (unless they play with the buffer).
     
    • Informative x 2
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