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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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So at what point will someone move forward with a solution to this by rooting? Could we root back to version 8 and have OTA upgrades turned off? Seems like this should be doable. Maybe when the EMMC chip is replaced from burning out? Part of the reason I haven't had mine rooted is for the warranty and also the high cost for rooting. But if the warranty is worthless then that doesn't matter.
 
So at what point will someone move forward with a solution to this by rooting? Could we root back to version 8 and have OTA upgrades turned off? Seems like this should be doable. Maybe when the EMMC chip is replaced from burning out? Part of the reason I haven't had mine rooted is for the warranty and also the high cost for rooting. But if the warranty is worthless then that doesn't matter.
It has been reported that if your car has been capped it has Condition Z, but that the capping, whilst not a perfect solution, does effectively neutralise the Condition. So I think it is better to keep the cap and work on improving range, than rolling back to a previous version. Particularly as we don’t know what Condition Z is.
 
I just found an old photo of my car charging at 95% with 16 kW. Today it charges at 6 kW at 95% after the voltage cap (which really is only 90%).
That means at the higher side of the battery charge speed has been reduced to 1/3!

The extra battery cooling has increased he overall energy usage of the car. If your daily driving is 40 miles (aprox 13 kWh) you are now using 15 kWh. That's a 15% increase in energy usage.
 
With winter upon us (in the Northern hemisphere anyway), things are definitely worse than a few months ago.

I repeated a 220 mile round trip journey (110 miles each way) which is now close to the 100% range in a capped 85D. It was 5-7C (43F) and raining hard which penalises range by an estimated 20% (in my experience).

I needed three supercharger sessions whereas in the past this journey would have been a breeze with two stops, and do-able with careful planning and reduced speed with a single charge session.

Why three? Because the charge speed is now slow enough that it's better to charge from 20-60% and head off again rather than wait an extra 25 minutes to get the remaining 60-80% extra range.

The other thing I've noticed is that the navigation SOC estimate at your destination and return is pretty accurate, while the typical range (not rated) based on SOC shown in the instrument binnacle above the steering wheel is pure fantasy!

On one leg of the trip, I left Oxford SC with 150 miles range showing in the binnacle for a 120 mile round trip with a 5 minute stop at the destination while the navigation system showed -8% range (not enough) for the return leg. Hence the necessity of an extra SC stop to make it back to Oxford SC again. I know I could have waited an extra 25 minutes before departing but my passengers and I were tired of hanging around.

The extra time spent charging and the extra SC stops is really starting to kill my enjoyment of owning/driving a Tesla.
 
I just read this article from a week ago that is relevant to this thread:

Tesla under scrutiny by feds for battery, software issues

Any number of ways. One way or another this is gonna get resolved.

Think of it this way.

Tesla decided to work on a new architecture of the battery cells/chemistry/whatever. Well...that's all right. Innovation happens with time...in general. The question is why? Why change the architecture after only a few years? That's a big decision. They needed to capture market share first and quickly...and they did, even if they knew about some of the "problems". Tesla is as limited by current tech as any other EV maker.

And then there were fires...and battery gate..and chargegate...and range loss. For an EV range is king when deciding on a particular model/trim/etc. You cannot compromise that post sale. It's either there or not there after the sale. If it's not...every lawyer in the world worth his/her salt starts salivating and starts seeing dollar signs....

For Tesla it's gonna be way more cost effective to replace batteries than deal with lawsuits.
If this were Tesla's intention, it could have quietly notified owners and let them know they were working on a permanent hardware solution. Instead, Tesla chose to hire a big outside law firm versed with these types of suites. Tesla has made its decision. No amount of speculation will change the fact that Tesla chose lawsuits over communication and honesty with its customers. There will be no magic solution coming from Tesla unless it is mandated by a court of law.

Redlining a vehicle's engine for the several-hours that Tesla now requires is considered abuse. This might be Tesla's first public admission that they now consider supercharging to be abusively damaging to our batteries, and is a complete reversal from everything they said about supercharging before, back when Tesla encouraged driving and touted "the world's best warranty"

I think we're seeing cracks in their overconfidence, and they're trying to blame us for doing what they encouraged. Elon said at the Supercharger reveal that this was the answer to what was holding electric cars back, that supercharging closed that allowing "no meaningful difference between a gasoline car and an electric car" and we believed him... but now Tesla is telling us supercharging damages our vehicles? How can they try to shift blame to us for believing their marketing inducements and buying their product based on those statements?
Typical Musk behavior. I've been saying for years that he's a shady fraudster, but the Koolaid drinkers here won't have any of that. Musk encourages customers to abuse their vehicles and squeezes every ounce of free marketing and sales he can get out of all social media posts, word of mouth, and Youtube videos. What Musk doesn't tell customers, which he very well knows, is that what he's encouraging people to do is damage their vehicles in a way that Tesla will disallow under its warranty.

Supercharge all you want and please gush profusely on Youtube about the speeds! But shhhh, don't tell anyone that it's bad for the car and doing too much of it now means you'll be doing a lot less of it later. Floor that pedal and let's see everyone screaming in the car with joy! Except, you know, don't tell folks that Tesla will steal range away from them because they pushed the system beyond the realistic limits.

Even Porsche has a footnote about DC charging on Taycan, saying the DC charge rate will eventually start to drop the more times it is fast charged. Where was Tesla's footnote when we bought our cars? When did Tesla tell us that treating our cars the way they encourage us to treat them will cause range loss and reduced charging speed in several years? Of course Tesla couldn't do that because it would underscore what a liar its CEO is.

Maybe this is why the relationship between Tesla and Panasonic is going south.
Batteries are not holding up as Tesla was hoping for or maybe Tesla shortened the minimum ripening/selection time the freshly manufactured batteries need (remember the gigantic ripening hall @The Gigafactory investors documentary- there must be a much bigger equivalent in Japan for the 18650) to such a degree that “medium” units got thrown in the mix thus to the customer and Panasonic now finds itself in a Mobile Eye situation. Three weeks ripening for a single cell- that’s torture in Elon’s understanding when there’s an alternative process called high temperature ripening. This is the absolute critical process, the quality assurance for a cells endurance in the long run and this could be the needle in the haystack.
Remember there’s this constant banter about Elon not being satisfied with Panasonic‘s speed. This could be the culprit.
Panel gap syndrome backflashing on a much deadlier ground.

There’s an underlying critical issue, otherwise Tesla would’ve come clean in the last SEVEN (!) Months.
The underlying critical issue is that all of this flows back to Elon Musk. All of it. From bragging about the product's unsustainable performance to encouraging owners to use a charging network that, by its very use, will damage your battery over time. Remember when Tesla capped ludicrous speed and took performance away because using Ludicrous was causing suspension failures? Exactly the same MO, except with that piece of fraud we had John McNeil to advocate for owners and had the decision reversed. Now there is only one person: Musk. He clearly has it out for the same early adopters who ensured the success of Tesla and one of Musk's nest eggs.

I just found an old photo of my car charging at 95% with 16 kW. Today it charges at 6 kW at 95% after the voltage cap (which really is only 90%).
That means at the higher side of the battery charge speed has been reduced to 1/3!

The extra battery cooling has increased he overall energy usage of the car. If your daily driving is 40 miles (aprox 13 kWh) you are now using 15 kWh. That's a 15% increase in energy usage.
Even on AC my car starts to taper down from 80A/240v when it hits 90%. That taper is recent in the last year, it used to charge at 80A longer than this.
 
With winter upon us (in the Northern hemisphere anyway), things are definitely worse than a few months ago.

I repeated a 220 mile round trip journey (110 miles each way) which is now close to the 100% range in a capped 85D. It was 5-7C (43F) and raining hard which penalises range by an estimated 20% (in my experience).

I needed three supercharger sessions whereas in the past this journey would have been a breeze with two stops, and do-able with careful planning and reduced speed with a single charge session.

Why three? Because the charge speed is now slow enough that it's better to charge from 20-60% and head off again rather than wait an extra 25 minutes to get the remaining 60-80% extra range.

The other thing I've noticed is that the navigation SOC estimate at your destination and return is pretty accurate, while the typical range (not rated) based on SOC shown in the instrument binnacle above the steering wheel is pure fantasy!

On one leg of the trip, I left Oxford SC with 150 miles range showing in the binnacle for a 120 mile round trip with a 5 minute stop at the destination while the navigation system showed -8% range (not enough) for the return leg. Hence the necessity of an extra SC stop to make it back to Oxford SC again. I know I could have waited an extra 25 minutes before departing but my passengers and I were tired of hanging around.

The extra time spent charging and the extra SC stops is really starting to kill my enjoyment of owning/driving a Tesla.

This is a great example how the charge speed makes a significant difference in real life. It is easy to brush it away as 'it's only few minutes longer'. That's not the whole truth. As you described the consequences are bigger. The compounded effect of all the various limitations is significant.

I also agree with @AmpedRealtor He makes an excellent point about how Tesla has been encouraging to push the cars to the limit and beyond making their customers believe that it would be just fine. As we see, it is not fine.
In fact, Tesla has been selling a technology that isn't sustainable long term. As we have seen in this discussion, it is not any specific 'abusive' behavior or driving/charging habit that is causing the issue. People that have been using their cars very little and not supercharged a lot are equally affected as people who have been using it a lot more. So it's not owners pushing it passed the limits, it's the battery itself.
 
So i kind of always suspected my late 2014 S85 battery was capped, but today i finally charged it to 100% (got the app message saying it had finished charging to 100%) and the BMS on my recently installed Scan My Tesla finally proved it.
I should have around 4.2 v, but it looks like i actually have an average of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178)

I WANT A NEW BATTERY!!!
Do you hear me Tesla?

And i want one that doesn't have the stupid sloooow charge rate at Superchargers like this one has since about June 2019.

Rant over. :mad:

Going to post this on the Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software thread too.
Screenshot_20191110-171555.jpg
Screenshot_20191110-171549.jpg
 
So i kind of always suspected my late 2014 S85 battery was capped, but today i finally charged it to 100% (got the app message saying it had finished charging to 100%) and the BMS on my recently installed Scan My Tesla finally proved it.
I should have around 4.2 v, but it looks like i actually have an average of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178)

I WANT A NEW BATTERY!!!
Do you hear me Tesla?

And i want one that doesn't have the stupid sloooow charge rate at Superchargers like this one has since about June 2019.

Rant over. :mad:

Going to post this on the Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software thread too.
screenshot_20191110-171555-jpg.475281
screenshot_20191110-171549-jpg.475282
 
So i kind of always suspected my late 2014 S85 battery was capped, but today i finally charged it to 100% (got the app message saying it had finished charging to 100%) and the BMS on my recently installed Scan My Tesla finally proved it.
I should have around 4.2 v, but it looks like i actually have an average of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178)

That isn't a capped battery... It has to stop charging when the highest cell reaches the top voltage, and then the balancing will start bleeding the top cells out to try to bring them down to the minimum cells...
 
So i kind of always suspected my late 2014 S85 battery was capped, but today i finally charged it to 100% (got the app message saying it had finished charging to 100%) and the BMS on my recently installed Scan My Tesla finally proved it.
I should have around 4.2 v, but it looks like i actually have an average of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178)

You don't have a capped battery... It has to stop charging when the highest cell reaches the top voltage, and then the balancing will start bleeding the top cells out to try to bring them down to the minimum cells...
 
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That isn't a capped battery... It has to stop charging when the highest cell reaches the top voltage, and then the balancing will start bleeding the top cells out to try to bring them down to the minimum cells...

What do you mean?
I should let it sit, plugged, at 100% until all the cells have the same voltage?

(it's already asked on the other thread, but for the sake of this thread...)
 
What do you mean?
I should let it sit, plugged, at 100% until all the cells have the same voltage?

(it's already asked on the other thread, but for the sake of this thread...)[/QUO

You're not capped. 4.19 is what I have at 100% on my P85D that has lost 11 miles in 104K miles.

What is your rated range at 100 or 90%?

And where does the "capped double capped" comment come from???