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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

trayloader

Member
Nov 21, 2016
361
450
GERMANY
059C78C3-38D4-4891-898D-174B573CF961.png
Have a link to that Twitter account? I may enjoy their writing...

Mic dropping
 
Nov 8, 2018
479
330
LX
Apparently you've got the tool, but have no clue how to use it properly.
Energy between what you describe and 4.2v is almost irrelevant.
Check nominal full pack capacity and stop whining :)

First thing i did when i installed Scan My Tesla was to check Nominal full pack (like i've said above "Nominal full pack varies from 74.2, 74.3, 74.4 and 74.5") and Usable full pack, which varies from 70.2 to 70.5, since the other 4.00 are Energy buffer.

But some here said i could only verify is i had been capped or not by checking cell voltage at 100% charge.
Which i did with the results showed above.

Now Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software thread clearly says:
"Model S/X
Charge to 100%. Using CANBUS tools, if your car’s cell volts @ 100% are close to 4.2v (real world readings are usually 4.198 or similar, don’t expect true 4.2v but you should be very close) you are OK. If you consistently charge to 4.18v or less @ 100% regardless of temperature, etc., you have probably been capped. Please add yourself to this spreadsheet
:"

So, since my Scan My Tesla BMS report states that i have an average cell voltage of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178), i'm not that far from being capped or at least possibly capped, am i?

Looks like i have some clue on how to properly use SMT, after all :)
 
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Ferrycraigs

Member
Dec 23, 2015
610
2,362
eh BONNIE, Scotland
So, how many volts does your battery have?
At 100% charge, cells were originally 4.2V.

After the download 4.07V (that 0.13V drop lost 30 miles)

After the court case was submitted it raised to 4.08V

After V10 it raised to 4.101V. (that 0.3V drop recouped about 7 miles)

If my battery read 4.185V or 4.19V, at around 100% or 99%+, I would consider my battery to have been repaired and I would expect my lost range to be down to low single figure miles.
 
Nov 8, 2018
479
330
LX
At 100% charge, cells were originally 4.2V.

After the download 4.07V (that 0.13V drop lost 30 miles)

After the court case was submitted it raised to 4.08V

After V10 it raised to 4.101V. (that 0.3V drop recouped about 7 miles)

If my battery read 4.185V or 4.19V, at around 100% or 99%+, I would consider my battery to have been repaired and I would expect my lost range to be down to low single figure miles.

Got it.
Thank you for the clarification.
 
Nov 8, 2018
479
330
LX
No probs. Perfectly reasonable question. I hope the explanation puts what seems like a small amount of voltage drop into context.

Sadly I can’t help with your charge rate strangulation, which I think is a much more inconvenient problem.

It sure does.
And yeah chargegate is really what affects me the most, since the drop in range has not been significant.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,808
40,227
Oregon
So, since my Scan My Tesla BMS report states that i have an average cell voltage of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178), i'm not that far from being capped or at least possibly capped, am i?

No, you are not capped at all. But you could be close, there is no data in SMT that will tell you if you are close. If you wake up one day and your 100% charge range has dropped by 30 miles overnight then you are capped. (And you can't charge the highest cell to/past 4.1 volts.)
 

AMPUP

Member
Mar 27, 2014
638
230
Dunn Loring, VA
I had posted here that my range dropped overnight to 208 at 90% from around 227, I received another SW update last week 2019.32.12.7 b728e1d and at the weekend had a trip that required supercharging as well as being able to run down the battery SOC to around 6%. Supercharging yesterday at around 25% SOC yielded a max speed of 61kwh, then went down to 58 quickly. (Not great and I changed stalls twice to confirm). Took forever to add 50 Miles that I needed. When I got back last night I plugged in and charged to 90% overnight, my rated range is at 220 as of this morning, which is much better than the 208 I had last week.
 

Lukez

Member
Mar 21, 2016
639
563
Ontario
So i kind of always suspected my late 2014 S85 battery was capped, but today i finally charged it to 100% (got the app message saying it had finished charging to 100%) and the BMS on my recently installed Scan My Tesla finally proved it.
I should have around 4.2 v, but it looks like i actually have an average of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178)

I WANT A NEW BATTERY!!!
Do you hear me Tesla?

And i want one that doesn't have the stupid sloooow charge rate at Superchargers like this one has since about June 2019.

Rant over. :mad:

Going to post this on the Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software thread too.
screenshot_20191110-171555-jpg.475281
screenshot_20191110-171549-jpg.475282

Curious if this was using a supercharger or ac charging at home?
I found that if I slow charge to 100%, say at 20 amps, I will hit 4.2v. When I supercharge to 100% the voltage will "settle" a few seconds after charging is complete to something lower like 4.18v.
 
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Droschke

Active Member
Mar 8, 2015
2,562
4,727
Future
I had posted here that my range dropped overnight to 208 at 90% from around 227, I received another SW update last week 2019.32.12.7 b728e1d and at the weekend had a trip that required supercharging as well as being able to run down the battery SOC to around 6%. Supercharging yesterday at around 25% SOC yielded a max speed of 61kwh, then went down to 58 quickly. (Not great and I changed stalls twice to confirm). Took forever to add 50 Miles that I needed. When I got back last night I plugged in and charged to 90% overnight, my rated range is at 220 as of this morning, which is much better than the 208 I had last week.

Thanks for the update. It's an improvement. I'm running 2019.32.12.8 and have not seen any change.

General observation: it would be highly helpful if the posters, especially who are voltage capped, can include their car's info in their signature or copy past the info to their posts each time. Reading this post and trying to remember which model you own without searching your prior posts is a bit time consuming for the rest. Thanks.
 

rich0

Member
Apr 9, 2019
52
61
Pennsylvania
Honestly, the thing that concerns me the most about all of this is that a bunch of lawyers, judges, and juries will end up having the final say over engineers.

I'm all for letting the owner choose via software though for what balance between longevity and capacity they want for the battery. Just as with the odometer the choices made should be recorded so that future owners can understand how the car was maintained, so that resale value isn't hit as hard for owners who don't try to squeeze every mile out of the battery.

I think people also have to realize that these technologies are new and engineers can only make the best designs and estimates that they can. To the degree that Tesla over promised there should be accountability, but we're increasingly living in a world where consumers and voters just give their preference to those who tell them what they want to hear...
 

Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
2,666
6,523
Logan
@T.R.T.e.s.l.a. Your battery is badly out of calibration. I don't know if TEsla can fix that, and it's a problem that should be fixed, but you arne't capped.

Bring it in, show them the data. They probably won't care (it's Tesla, everything is "perfectly OK!" while they're trashing warranties in favor of profitability) but it's easy to see the BMS flubbed up and didn't charge / discharge your cells evenly.

They may suggest driving to very low ~1% and then supercharging back to 100% or something but I don't know if that will work or not.
 

Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
2,666
6,523
Logan
Honestly, the thing that concerns me the most about all of this is that a bunch of lawyers, judges, and juries will end up having the final say over engineers.

I'm all for letting the owner choose via software though for what balance between longevity and capacity they want for the battery. Just as with the odometer the choices made should be recorded so that future owners can understand how the car was maintained, so that resale value isn't hit as hard for owners who don't try to squeeze every mile out of the battery.

I think people also have to realize that these technologies are new and engineers can only make the best designs and estimates that they can. To the degree that Tesla over promised there should be accountability, but we're increasingly living in a world where consumers and voters just give their preference to those who tell them what they want to hear...
They can talk all they want about business decisions going wrong, but the end of the day Tesla actively stole from us. They took what tthey had advertised. It didn't wear away, it wasn't slowly degraded, they made an intentional effort to steal it all at once - and they did it in response to what should have been a safety recall. Tesla has no leg to stand on here, and their lawyers right now are trying to soften how badly this will go for them.

I truly believe right now their only goal is to delay the court order to replace batteries until after they have the ability to build cheaper 21700 based Model S packs. That's the only way they can "win" - and the savings have to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars just to break even on the NHTSA fines for not reporting back in May.

The dumbest part of all of this is Tesla could have skipped an NHTSA investigation just by treating us the way they used to when our cars were new. We wouldn't have filed our concerns with the authorities if they had said "your battery has a problem. We can replace it, but if you wait X months we can get you a better battery. Sign this NDA you can't talk about the better battery." Something happened at Tesla, and they hate customers now. I don't know what we did, but I know the way we are treated shows they hate us.
 
Nov 8, 2018
479
330
LX
Curious if this was using a supercharger or ac charging at home?
I found that if I slow charge to 100%, say at 20 amps, I will hit 4.2v. When I supercharge to 100% the voltage will "settle" a few seconds after charging is complete to something lower like 4.18v.

It was charging at home.
One thing i noticed is that, usually, if i charge to 100% at home, it gets to 100%, but then it takes a long time before i get the message saying charging is complete and before that it keeps says "calculating" on the MCU for a long time. But this time i got the charging complete message on the app not long before the last time i had looked at it and it was at 99%.
 
Last edited:
Nov 8, 2018
479
330
LX
@T.R.T.e.s.l.a. Your battery is badly out of calibration. I don't know if TEsla can fix that, and it's a problem that should be fixed, but you arne't capped.

Bring it in, show them the data. They probably won't care (it's Tesla, everything is "perfectly OK!" while they're trashing warranties in favor of profitability) but it's easy to see the BMS flubbed up and didn't charge / discharge your cells evenly.

They may suggest driving to very low ~1% and then supercharging back to 100% or something but I don't know if that will work or not.

Thanks for the tip!
I'm glad i'm not capped, but yes i think something is not totally right either.
Will ask the service center to see what they have to say and will report back.
 
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davidGR

Member
Mar 30, 2016
13
25
Nantwich UK
I have a similar situation to report.
Since May 16, 2019 my P85D has lost 27 rated miles (43 Km). That is 11% in 28 days and 3604 miles. The rate of decline continues at a consistent pace. The previous 72000 miles before May 16 the rated range had dropped at most 12 miles in 715 days. The battery has powered 130,026 miles since April 2015.

The rapid decline started the day after I installed software 2019.16.1.1. Perhaps just a coincidence. Current software is version 2019.16.2.

I reported this sudden change to a Tesla tech in Denver on May 29 (down 12 miles) and June 10 (down 24 miles). Both times he replied that he did remote tests on the high voltage battery and said "the battery cells are experiencing some wear, which is normal and expected as the vehicle ages". SNAFU?

I expect the battery to slowly degrade with age and use as I experienced for the first 126400 miles. But this rapid decline is not normal. Now that I see others have similar experiences we need to dig further and escalate this within Tesla.

Comments?
View attachment 419225
I'm in the UK and have experienced the same - 20% drop after restrictive software introduced without permission. However Tesla Manchester ignore me and will not replace the battery. How do we start a UK class action?
 
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