Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Droschke]

ABetterRoutePlanner expects:

80kW at 40% for S85
70kW at 40% for S70D

Your charge started at only 36 kW ay 40% could be cold battery, but then the charge would grow as the battery warmed up.

Fine. But what's your point? That your car charges better than mine or two cars are supposed to charge the same? Or, the chargegate is a hoax? Or, the owners (except yourself, of course) don't know what they are doing?

 

[jensk2]

So what? Am I to understand that two cars get charged differently?

Come on, my post is a proposal, that ChargeGate could have different Gates depending on 'measured/assumed' battery performance.

So I show you that my S70D with its smaller 350V batterypack, happens to charge a HIGHER RATE at 56% than you reported for you 400V S85 pack at only 40%

At 40% my smaller pack charges 56kW as compared to your 36kW - hope your battery was just cold!

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

...pointlesss

if you aren't looking at cell temps and mV variation between strings why say anything about charge rates?
(sure I've added plenty of pointless commentary but this is not any sort of proposal or evidence of anything)

 

[Droschke]

I don't need to ask Jeff, he already stated 70% in 2017!

Tesla Battery Expert's Recommendation For Maximum Battery Life - Video

Was not inserted in my owners manual and not texted by the SC techs to the owners. Good info, but a mute point

Since you seem to be enjoying this (BTW, I'm completely sober), why don't you follow Elon Musk's recommendation I posted earlier in my reply to you. You ignored it conveniently

 

[jensk2]

Fine. But what's your point? That your car charges better than mine or two cars are supposed to charge the same? Or, the chargegate is a hoax? Or, the owners (except yourself, of course) don't know what they are doing?

Of course ChargeGate is not a hoax, go to the ABetterRoutePlanner blog i previously linked: Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update

 

[Droschke]

Come on, my post is a proposal, that ChargeGate could have different Gates depending on 'measured/assumed' battery performance.

So I show you that my S70D with its smaller 350V batterypack, happens to charge a HIGHER RATE at 56% than you reported for you 400V S85 pack at only 40%

At 40% my smaller pack charges 56kW as compared to your 36kW - hope your battery was just cold!

You and you car are definitely a special case. Happy for you.

(I now understand why this thread is so long!)

Might it just be that posters such as yourself are contributing to it too?

 

[jensk2]

You and you car are definitely a special case. Happy for you.

Droschke, please go look at ABetterRoutePlanner, my car is slightly BELOW average. Your car should approx meet the green graph attached.

 

[Droschke]

Droschke, please go look at ABetterRoutePlanner, my car is slightly BELOW average. Your car should approx meet the green graph attached.

I did. My car and lots of other cars these days are reporting to fall below that green line. What do you think we should do?

 

[jensk2]

This advice runs counter to what has been preached here for years - that the best way to preserve the health of the battery is to keep it neither at a high SOC nor at a low SOC. Keeping the battery averaging at 50% SOC has been the advice for how to best prolong the battery.

Average SoC at 50% IS a good advice. If you add 'only charge to what is needed and in the very last moment', it becomes perfect.

Important is that any periods at high SoC needs to be 'recovered' at low SoC. So the durations at either ends is important.

Lets assume you need to Supercharge 80% in your daily communte. Then a scheme where you leave early at low SoC, Supercharge on your way to work (while doing e-mails) and ends at work with 50% and at home with 10% is FAR better than the opposite.

You leave from home with 90%, end at work at 50%, drives home to SUC charges to 90% (while doing e-mails) and leaves car at 90% over night.

Here is constant cycling 12% around P1 == 81%, then resting at either P1 == 81% or at P5 == 9%. As can be seen remaining capacity is largely recovered at 9%, but it takes time!

 

[jensk2]

I did. My car and lots of other cars these days are reporting to fall below that green line. What do you think we should do?

Hmmm. I am on 2019.40.2.3 and live in cold 3C Denmark, which could explain why I am slightly below ABRP.

If limitation is new software, then I guess ABRP will discover and blog. If the issue is temperature, that could be challenging for ABRP, because they then need to add temperature to their graphs.

(Trust me: I am sober as well!)

 

[jensk2]

Average SoC at 50% IS a good advice. If you add 'only charge to what is needed and in the very last moment', it becomes perfect.

Important is that any periods at high SoC needs to be 'recovered' at low SoC. So the durations at either ends is important.

Lets assume you need to Supercharge 80% in your daily communte. Then a scheme where you leave early at low SoC, Supercharge on your way to work (while doing e-mails) and ends at work with 50% and at home with 10% is FAR better than the opposite.

You leave from home with 90%, end at work at 50%, drives home to SUC charges to 90% (while doing e-mails) and leaves car at 90% over night.

Here is constant cycling 12% around P1 == 81%, then resting at either P1 == 81% or at P5 == 9%. As can be seen remaining capacity is largely recovered at 9%, but it takes time!

Reference test/report is here: Investigation of capacity recovery during rest period at different states-of-charge after cycle life test for prismatic Li(Ni1/3Mn1/3Co1/3)O2-graphite cells - ScienceDirect
No longer public, will search for copy without copyright!

 

[Droschke]

If limitation is new software

There is no if. The limitation is the new software. The rest is old news.

Nice travelling around the circle though

 

[Chaserr]

I agree there appears to be a number of possible chargegate nerfs possible. The ABRP graph green line is at the top of what looks like a rather strange overall decrease. It's likely some are hit harder than others with people that are also infected with the batterygate malware getting additional "protection for longevity" nerfs to charging. I haven't seen higher than 60kW for most of this year and I think I'm going to start contributing my charge sessions to ABRP. I suggest everyone else infected do the same - we can add a potential new graph to the data showing crowdsourced data. Can ABRP pull 100% volts too? It would be interesting if they can automatically diagnose an infection for contributors.

 

[Kim.T]

That's not the Tesla's official best practices for charging. "A happy Tesla is a Plugged in Tesla", "Charge to 90%", etc. has been their recommendations from day one. Tesla has never said anything close to what you are stating either verbally or in writing to the owners. The opposite is true:

An owner asking Elon Musk:
"any insight on the best nightly SoC for battery longevity? 90%, 70%, 50%?
Any software fix for unbalanced cells due to sub 90% nightly charges?"
LikeTesla on Twitter

Elon Musk advising:
"Not worth going below 80% imo. Even 90% is still fine. Also, no issue going to 5% or lower SoC."
Elon Musk on Twitter

How do you think the people who have a very daily commute would charge nightly? They have been told by Tesla to charge overnight to 90% and leave it plugged in till morning.

1 week before the fire : Elon Musk on Twitter
"It’s not a big deal. Charge to 90% to 95% & you’ll be fine. At 100% state of charge, regen braking doesn’t work, because the battery is full, so car is less energy efficient."
But I guess this tweet where meant to every one - except owners of pre-faceliftet cars.........
Please can someone reply Elon on this Tweet ?????

 

[eye.surgeon]

I posted some thoughts and a possible solution regarding batterygate and chargegate here:

Making the case for an Apple solution to the looming Tesla battery crisis

I didn't want to derail this thread by posting it here, but feel free to read and post your thoughts.

 

[Kim.T]

ChargeGate must be 'degradation' dependant too?

I charged my S 70D Oct 2015 with SoC + kW > 98 this christmas with SW 2019.40.2.3. Best thoughput was at higher SoC. Attached App-screenshot shows 42kW at 56%

Same speed on my 70D from sep '15 : 55% - 43kW. I was the only one charging on the SuC (16 150kW stalls) and the battery was 36C
That is the speed I have had since 2019.20.xxx

 

[Droschke]

I posted some thoughts and a possible solution regarding batterygate and chargegate here:

Making the case for an Apple solution to the looming Tesla battery crisis

I didn't want to derail this thread by posting it here, but feel free to read and post your thoughts.

I wish you lots of luck. You are brave.

 

[Chaserr]

1 week before the fire : Elon Musk on Twitter
"It’s not a big deal. Charge to 90% to 95% & you’ll be fine. At 100% state of charge, regen braking doesn’t work, because the battery is full, so car is less energy efficient."
But I guess this tweet where meant to every one - except owners of pre-faceliftet cars.........
Please can someone reply Elon on this Tweet ?????

He's never going to say that again. I guarantee it. Everything post 2019.16 seems to be intended on lowering the amount of energy held by the battery and it is literally impossible to charge to 95% any more for everyone infected.

Even at the time I remember thinking Jeff would facepalm. Degradation at 90% is something like twice as bad as at 80% and it keeps getting higher as you increase charge % so for them the lower you charge the cheaper the warranty risks. Telling the whole fleet to charge to 90% daily when some were charging to 80% or whatever increased their operating costs in 140 words.

 

[rowdy]

Interesting paper posted by jensk2

So has anyone tried leaving their car at 10% SOC for a month to see if it reverses the impact? Might bring back higher speeds at superchargers?

I know it'd be a hassle but seems like Tesla aren't providing any alternatives at this point

 

[Droschke]

Interesting paper posted by jensk2

So has anyone tried leaving their car at 10% SOC for a month to see if it reverses the impact? Might bring back higher speeds at superchargers?

I know it'd be a hassle but seems like Tesla aren't providing any alternatives at this point

I seriously doubt it will work. The chargegate is imposed.