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Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Dutchmeeuw, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    #81 Droschke, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
    That's 223 miles @100% on a 85D? Looks bad.

    What was the result of Tesla doing the capacity test on your car?
     
  2. Dave46

    Dave46 Member

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    YES!
    I have lost 29.4 miles (47 km) since May 16.
    That equal 9.2 kWh (12%) of lost battery capacity in one month.

    And it continues to drop every time I drive. Post #73 S85D sudden degradation

    How many km have you driven in the last month?
     
  3. Dave46

    Dave46 Member

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    How many miles have driven on 2019.16.2 in two weeks?

    The sudden range lost is proportional to miles driven
     
  4. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    Hopefully that would never happen!

    If Tesla is trying to protect these batteries by reducing capacity how would that relate to battery warranty policy? If they are trying to avoid the warranty claims by reducing capacity, doesn't these reductions themselves trigger lots of warranty claims?
     
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  5. dark cloud

    dark cloud Member

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    That screen shot was after a 650 km drive Saturday, and I stopped to supercharge 5 times. That and commuting about 10 times at 70 km a day, plus some other short trips, so at least 1000 miles since the update?
     
  6. Dave46

    Dave46 Member

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    Looks good for you. It is not clear yet why some 85's are seeing this degradation. More data needed.
     
  7. faughtz

    faughtz Model S P85DL

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  8. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    They are not. It's an artificial degradation imposed by Tesla SW update by lowering the limits on the available HVB's kWh.
     
  9. Dave46

    Dave46 Member

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    What do you think we should do about it?
    Revert to an older software version (before 2019.16.1)? Never accept new software updates? Other?
    There could be a software bug that keeps lowering the kWh capacity after driving or charging.
     
  10. VT_EE

    VT_EE Active Member

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    They are not reducing battery capacity. They are reducing usable capacity, which was never advertised to anybody. Having said that, if your range decreases by 30% from the advertised range when the car was new, then you have a legitimate battery warranty claim. It’s obvious that Tesla is reducing the max voltage on the cells for a legitimate concern (probably related to fires). I understand your frustration, but I’m not sure what exactly you would have them do. Replace everyone’s pack instead reducing max cell voltage? That’s not a realistic solution and is not a contractual obligation they have as long as they don’t continue to reduce the range so it hits the 30% warranty threshold. If people don’t want Tesla messing with their vehicle operation, then disconnect the vehicle from the internet and avoid the updates. Every Tesla owner knows that updates can increase or decrease performance. It’s part of the Tesla experience.
     
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  11. Guillaume

    Guillaume Member

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    We have collected some data about this issue in the german tesla forum (tff-forum.de).
    Tesla Degradation FW 2019.16.2

    Furthermore, with Software 2019.20.1, the overall charging rate at the supercharger has declined. I already can confirm this for my S85, but still collecting more data about it.
     
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  12. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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  13. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    I understand and have no argument on the good intention, if it's communicated to the owners.
     
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  14. eggy

    eggy Member

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    Agreed and another point is, why does the range keep declining? Mine got reduced about 7km/week during the last 5 weeks... and no indication of stopping.
     
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  15. faughtz

    faughtz Model S P85DL

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    I consider the action to be theft.
     
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  16. Droschke

    Droschke Active Member

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    If you take the opinion of @VT_EE , post#93, you need to wait till your reduction in range hits the 30% warranty threshold. Otherwise all is good ;)
     
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  17. BoerumHill

    BoerumHill not great not terrible

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    30% warranty threshold? Is that what the Model S battery warranty says?

    My reading of this is 70% retention only applies to the Model 3.
     
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  18. VT_EE

    VT_EE Active Member

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    If that’s the case, what wording was used for the original Model S warranties that specified the condition for battery replacements? I doubt Tesla’s lawyers allowed a warranty that required a replacement for any range loss. I do realize the situation sucks, but from a practical perspective, there isn’t much else they could do other than provide better communication. We all know they are terrible at that.
     
  19. sorka

    sorka Well-Known Member

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    Any range loss that is due to a software change and not due to degradation is theft even if they never advertised explicit battery battery capacity.

    Remember this thread?

    Tesla's 85 kWh rating needs an asterisk (up to 81 kWh, with up to ~77 kWh usable)

    Hundreds of forum members went ballistic because it turns out the 85 battery is really an 81. I never had skin in that game because what Tesla advertised, rated range based on a specific watt hour / mile consumption for my specific mode, the P85D, is exactly what I got.

    This is entirely different. If they're taking away range by locking out capacity that still exists that you had access to and if this turns out to be true for real, this is going to snowball and blow up larger than any 81 vs 85 or 463 vs 691 argument:eek:

    The best evidence I've seen that they really did lock out range by preventing charging to the top is the voltage read by canbus scanners at 100% charge.

    When a lithium ion battery loses capacity, it still experiences the same range of voltage from 0 to100%. It just swings faster because there's less capacity. If the car indicates 100% but all 96 strings are now displaying a voltage that is consistent with say 90%, then they have locked out the capacity at the top. This will certainly extend battery life but only for those that would have charged to 100%. It also means that if this change is real and if I'm forced to get it(still on v8), it means I will no longer be able to make it to Tejon Ranch from Merced on a 100% charge which I can now at 91K miles with about 20 miles l left when I arrive at Tejon Ranch.
     
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  20. BoerumHill

    BoerumHill not great not terrible

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    New Vehicle Limited Warranty
    Your car is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your car are covered for a period of:

    • Model S and Model X – 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first).
    • Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
    • Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
     
    • Informative x 2

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