JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That can't be true. I'm sure at least one unit of every safety related part of every vehicle ever made in volume has failed yet no recall was ever issued.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
@JRP3 Tesla has to report every possible safety issue they investigate to the NHTSA. They released a press statement discussing their investigation of fires and in the same statement they acknowledge they took action to change BMS settings (batterygate). But still haven't reported. Not reporting is a crime, fines will have to happen. No possible other outcome, they broke the law and the NHTSA is assessing how badly.
The NHTSA has to be informed of ALL customer reported complaints and all internal investigations. They assess recalls, not Tesla. They weren't informed. Tesla will be finedvaside from any recalls and civil settlements. David's link is an entirely separate set if laws from the ones I linked. They're guilty if a lot of crimes over batterygate. That's why it would have been cheaper and easier to replace EVERY 85 and 75 with A brand new 100. The subterfuge and fraud won't go over well with the NHTSA.
The NHTSA will and has issued recalls for specific individual vehicles. It doesn't have to be fleet wide, it does have to be reported.
MP3mike read this post.
The NHTSA has to be informed of ALL customer reported complaints and all internal investigations. They assess recalls, not Tesla. They weren't informed. Tesla will be finedvaside from any recalls and civil settlements. David's link is an entirely separate set if laws from the ones I linked. They're guilty if a lot of crimes over batterygate. That's why it would have been cheaper and easier to replace EVERY 85 and 75 with A brand new 100. The subterfuge and fraud won't go over well with the NHTSA.
The NHTSA will and has issued recalls for specific individual vehicles. It doesn't have to be fleet wide, it does have to be reported.
MP3mike read this post.
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That I can agree with to some extent. That wiggling would come to a full stop when the severe chargegated cars are covered. Starting @35% all the way to 80% SoC, my peak charge rate did not go above 40-ish kW with the pre-heated battery today.
How do you know they haven't reported an in-process investigation to NHTSA? It isn't like NHTSA publishes every piece of communication they have with Tesla. (As can be seen from Tesla having reviewed many SUA incidents with NHTSA but that wasn't published on the NHTSA site.)
Truer words could not be spoken.
Here is my theory about chargegate:
You go to a SC and you are at 15% SOC and right away Tesla tells you 60 minutes to reach 100 percent ...(percentages are just an example) As you are 30 minutes in Tesla (app) tells you 45 minutes more ....you get the gist and you end up at 120 minutes if lucky.
What I am thinking is that the CAR's BMS is what is throttling things back because it is detecting "some issues" internally; maybe cells out of balance or internal cell resistance,...
A year ago you could trust Tesla's estimated charge times and plan your lunch or stops accordingly. Now Tesla gives you the same estimated times but you end up 50+ percent off. Hence my belief that Tesla mothership does not know as much about each car's battery health and that capping and/or chargegate is dictated by the car's internal software/firmware.
You go to a SC and you are at 15% SOC and right away Tesla tells you 60 minutes to reach 100 percent ...(percentages are just an example) As you are 30 minutes in Tesla (app) tells you 45 minutes more ....you get the gist and you end up at 120 minutes if lucky.
What I am thinking is that the CAR's BMS is what is throttling things back because it is detecting "some issues" internally; maybe cells out of balance or internal cell resistance,...
A year ago you could trust Tesla's estimated charge times and plan your lunch or stops accordingly. Now Tesla gives you the same estimated times but you end up 50+ percent off. Hence my belief that Tesla mothership does not know as much about each car's battery health and that capping and/or chargegate is dictated by the car's internal software/firmware.
SmartElectric
Active Member
That battery was cold. Pack needs to be well into the high 25C to charge at peak rates.
Our 2013 charges at 40kW when cold and 90kW when the pack is warmed up. Driving on the street or highway is nowhere near sufficient to warm a battery. You need to hammer it as Bjørn Nyland says. Many full accelerations for 5 seconds and regen and repeat. Try it and you’ll see much better charge rates.
I had the exact same rates of charging and I followed Bjorn's rules and was driving for 45mins. 33-75% took 50mins rates. Max 57kw for short time down to 36kw.
islandbayy
Active Member
I see this too! my MX75D, after driving for 75 minutes on the freeway, pack was warmed to about 100*F, plugged in, ramped up to 85kW-ish, after a minute down to 60, and stayed there. Arrived with 1 mile remaining range due to the massive snow storm.
SmartElectric
Active Member
if your battery cooking system wasn’t blowing warm air out of the front of your Model S, then no the battery wasn’t up to temperature.
Our old Model S charges at max rates when I drive. And when supercharging the battery cooling system runs very hard vibrating the car from the fans and compressor motors running.
When my wife drives , she usually sees 40 kW rates when supercharging, no fans running. She doesn’t drive the car hard enough to warm the battery.
This is the same behaviour for the past 4 years. No charge in behaviour over 100000 km, hundreds of supercharges. I have a OBDII device that has recorded every supercharge and trip for that period and posted details upthread a few months ago.
Supercharging speed is almost perfectly correlated with the way the car is driven. Hard diving results in fastest charging.
I will post this again and ask these questions
Is there something wrong with our battery packs?
If there is, is it our fault?
Do you still have peace of mind with your Tesla?
Is there something wrong with our battery packs?
If there is, is it our fault?
Do you still have peace of mind with your Tesla?
I have 54km to work - normal road.
When leaving (at the current temp) in the morning, my battery is approx 10C. When arriving at work the temp is approx 26C. The battery heater has not been on. So the warm comes from the drivetrain.
Another observation. When leaving in the morning nothing happens for the first 5-10min with the temp. (battery heater temp, and battery inlet temp.)- temp. is constant. Suddenly the inlet temp raises - my best guess is that heat from the drivetrin is used to heat the battery - a valve is opened.
When navigating to a SuC, I can see that the battery heater is turned on approx 10min before arrival, unless the battery is already warm.
PS temp has not been below 0C here this "winter"
You should tell the navigation to navigate to the SuC. Then the car will automatic pre-heat the batteri before you arrive. The icon will also be visible in the App.
Attached a picture with data from ScanMyTesla.
At. 7:26:30 the heater is turned on. At that time the cell temp is 25,2C. 10min later I arrive. At that time the cell temp is 29,3C (I did not charge - my work is 1km from a SuC, so I just added the SuC as destination to test the pre-heating of the battery before SuC). I did not remove the destination, therefor the heater turned on as soon as I left work because the SuC was still the destination - it newer does that.
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Perfect typo. You think with the loack of regen, heating, etc tesla wrote a bad BMS at some point that "cooked" batteries? It's as good a hypothesis as any until the NHTSA gets their hands on the data and sends us a letter.
Cherish those max rates while they last! You're one of few, and from your boasts I think it's possible the A packs may be Tesla's most reliable 85s made.
That should be obvious - the NHTSA doesn't permit theft or warranty violations and discloses drastic modifications made before action is taken with federally mandated public disclosure. It's all part of their own legal requirements. And, of course, I read the documentation from the NHTSA demanding Tesla turn over that data to aid in their investigation into chargegate & batterygate, and I know for fact the NHTSA will never permit downgrades like Tesla has pulled. If they had been included, we would have received physical paper letters informing us of the actions taken on or cars. (informed consent is what they call it in my industry, and the NHTSA has similar requirements). It's a very big deal. Lack of informed consent will probably result in additional punitive actions against Tesla but that's a separate set of fines from the not reporting you had asked about.
Since you've forgotten, Mercedes was just fined for unreported problems. Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software - you marked that post as read so I know you already know all of this.
It was my hope that Tesla would rush to try and get tiny fines like Mercedes, but it seems they haven't.
When the NHTSA is notified, they will be required send physical mail to all of us owners informing us of the non-consentual modifications made to our cars, as well as informing us of when those damages will be rectified. If it follows standard NHTSA procedure it will tell us to contact Tesla to arrange repairs with them. It should be almost identical to the recall letters most of us affected in this thread have received for our Teslas in the past; if you want to know what those look like for a Tesla recall it's probably easy to find in an early Takata thread.
Don't you worry, we will scan and post the results for you to read the gritty details of the NHTSA letters in this thread as soon as we get them. You won't be left in suspense.
MP3mike marked this post as read.
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Good info. Thanks.
But, I still don't understand why we can no longer have our batteries pre-heated via the Tesla mobile app climate control (by turning the heat inside the cabin on) and especially when the car is still plugged in! This was a useful feature which no longer works.
On Edit: Are you saying if I'm one hour from a Supercharger and set the navigation destination to that supercharger, the battery gets heated only 10 minutes before arrival? In other words, no battery heating for the first 50 minutes?
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Forgive me as I’m late to this party and haven’t been able to read through all of the posts.
I’ve always been concerned with battery degradation and even researched prior to purchase to try and mitigate this, from the start.
I don’t do much if any supercharging and I maintain the battery between 20-80%. It only became alarming during the summer (I believe) when my 80% charged was not cutting it and I had to bump my charge up to 90% as miles in tank suddenly dropped and my round trip commute was suddenly closing in on 20%. This change in my battery seemed very sudden and I chalked it up as the luck of the draw as I felt I had taken care of my battery.
From one of the posts I used the formula (avg consumption X projected range / % left in tank). I came up with 65,984.84.... on a Tesla S 75D. Mine was purchased in Dec 2017 (face lifted version). I tend to drive more aggressively then most Tesla’s. Not sure if my driving characteristics have created a condition X or Z, which Tesla identified and in turn capped. As I have Supercharged maybe 20 times in 2 years.
thanks for any input!
I’ve always been concerned with battery degradation and even researched prior to purchase to try and mitigate this, from the start.
I don’t do much if any supercharging and I maintain the battery between 20-80%. It only became alarming during the summer (I believe) when my 80% charged was not cutting it and I had to bump my charge up to 90% as miles in tank suddenly dropped and my round trip commute was suddenly closing in on 20%. This change in my battery seemed very sudden and I chalked it up as the luck of the draw as I felt I had taken care of my battery.
From one of the posts I used the formula (avg consumption X projected range / % left in tank). I came up with 65,984.84.... on a Tesla S 75D. Mine was purchased in Dec 2017 (face lifted version). I tend to drive more aggressively then most Tesla’s. Not sure if my driving characteristics have created a condition X or Z, which Tesla identified and in turn capped. As I have Supercharged maybe 20 times in 2 years.
thanks for any input!
The Post#1 of this thread has an additional up to date wiki which I strongly encourage you to read first to gain lots of information if you are "late to this party". There is also a tracker spreadsheet link in that wiki you should add yourself to and compare your data to others. Welcome to ask more questions after you are done with the entire Post#1.
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