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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Droschke

Active Member
Mar 8, 2015
2,548
4,481
Future
At what point does one have 30% degredation?

The 30% applies to the newer cars and won't apply to your car. The U.S. warranty for a "6 year old car" like yours is included here:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/Model-S-Quick-Start-Guide.pdf

Download and save.

No mention of 30%. But, you have Elon Musk's own words, when he said "If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours", described under Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program

But will 185.5 miles be a trigger for a battery swap?

I don't think so. Our warranty didn't have a range loss phrase in it; that phrase is more recent. Technically, without a clear sign of some failure, they don't have to replace it at all.

From what I've read in this forum, Tesla won't accept a customer's data extracted from their own car. Customers are forced to rely on Tesla alone to read and interpret their car's faults as they see fit.

It might help to notice what @DJRas was told by a Tesla Service Center regarding the Tesla's secretly kept "Fleet-wide average":
Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
 

Lewis88

Member
May 18, 2020
26
12
The Netherlands
The 30% applies to the newer cars and won't apply to your car. The U.S. warranty for a "6 year old car" like yours is included here:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/Model-S-Quick-Start-Guide.pdf

Download and save.

No mention of 30%. But, you have Elon Musk's own words, when he said "If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours", described under Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program







It might help to notice what @DJRas was told by a Tesla Service Center regarding the Tesla's secretly kept "Fleet-wide average":
Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Thanks for all this, and everybody else's reply. Looks like I need to drop lower than 90% fleet, I think I'm not far off. Tesla should make these numbers public, if the distribution is tight, they wont have many replacements. If quality is poor, well... too bad and give us the 350V packs and recycle/sell the old bricks as cheap powerwalls or whatever. Let's see how the capacity behaves the next few months, if it stabilizes I wont be too fussed. But less than 300km (185miles) will get really annoying on long trips.
 

Wackelkontakt

New Member
Jan 2, 2021
4
42
Germany
We got 2020.48.26 on 12/25/20 for our 2015 AP1 S85 here in germany.

I supercharged the car on 12/31/20 on V2 from 9 to 80% and took a video, including Scan My Tesla live data.
No change in charging speed compared to earlier versions.

- Software 2020.48.26 (Xmas 2020 Update)
- 2 deg. celsius outside temp
- 40 min drive to Supercharger V2 with active preconditioning
- 32 deg. celsius initial battery temp
- 12 stall Supercharger station with only me charging

Video:
 

oaito

Member
Apr 27, 2017
61
109
Europe
I haven't been doing updates (on Ver8) and have booth noticed and heard from an employee (FWIW) charge rates were dialed down for customers not taking delivery (kiosks were full of unplated cars). My curve, obviously unaffected by version, has dropped to ~60KW on DCFC, after only about 70-90 miles of charge. My belief is this can be VIN driven at the mother-ship, not just by software versions. For example, I pulled in toward the end of that delivery day (~6:30) and what was a froze 32KW rate, earlier, was back up to 100KW+, before rapid taper.

A lot has to do with cold batteries, versus warm, I think on this day. But as far as being convinced of VIN control, the sales associate's indication of throttled speeds was spot on. -Cold batteries don't start with and hold 32KW charge rates after 70 miles of charge. They usually go up, as they warm (YMMV).

I am not excluding that software versions are also playing a role. I know, at least, the service teams know the VINs of every charging car, because I've seen it on their screen, without asking to have my car/charger brought up. If you're downloading software and connecting to Tesla, you are ultimately submitting to its control of your "gas cap". Whether software versions, or its decision about your VIN, on any given day, it reinforces charging at home.

Above Post is from the AP1 only please -- life after 2018.50.6 thread on tmc

Does anyone with CCS Upgrade around here downgraded the f/w afterwards and then noticed during supercharging or CCS-charging (with a warm battery) a degraded charge rate?

BR! Oaito.
 

maximizese

Member
Jan 16, 2018
484
464
California
Until Tesla is sued and forced to accept validity of the owner's data in court. Many jurisdictions have a $10,000 limit on small claims. That would appear to be a better way to sue Tesla than a class action. Small claims courts are far more inclined to agree with a wronged consumer than they are with a bully corporation.

If we all filed small claims actions in our local jurisdictions, Tesla legal would be overwhelmed. Why, exactly, are we trying to make this easy on Tesla?
I believe small claims court also generally bars representation by licensed lawyers too so that often plays to advantage of a small claimant going up against a big corporation. I think there was a famous small claims court filed and decided around the Torrance, Ca area when a woman who happened to be a lawyer herself, sued Honda for their mileage claim.

Civic Lesson: Woman Sues Honda Over Mileage Claim
 
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marvin72

Member
Jun 3, 2020
5
28
Europe
Does anyone with CCS Upgrade around here downgraded the f/w afterwards and then noticed during supercharging or CCS-charging (with a warm battery) a degraded charge rate?

I've recently had to update to 2020.36.11 for getting the CCS update via ranger, afterwards another visit at a SeC to fix unlocking/start/etc. via app (*). Then a downgrade straight back to 2019.12.1.1 to get the max brick voltage cap and the charging rate taper removed.

Diagnostic Mode of MCU showed Nominal Full Pack Energy: 67.3kWh w/ 2020.36.11 and jumped back to 73.1kWh w/ 2019.12.1.1

So far I've only charged a couple of times at an ABB 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO charging point, w/ 2020.36.11 the max charge rate of 48kW started to be going down at 60% soc was down to 37kW at 75% soc. With 2019.12.1.1 it kept 48kW until ~75% soc and then declining below 40kW at ~85% soc... I'm looking forward to my next long distance trip to see how SuC performance is.

Keep in mind, it is even worse than the %soc seems to suggest, since...

2020.36.11 vs. 2019.12.1.1
4.11V 4.2V =>> max Brick Voltage
96% soc 100% =>> actual max %soc when charging w/ DC or AC before BMS signals stop
67.3kWh 73.1kWh =>> Nominal Full Pack Energy according to onboard Diagnostic Mode

Lets try to calculate the percentage of Energy is left at 2020.36.11:

67.3kWh*0.96=64.608kWh =>> Nom. Full Pack Energy * actual max %soc equals actual Nom. Pack Energy at 2020.36.11

64.608kWh/0.731kWh=88.38% =>> At 2020.36.11 the actual Nom. Pack Energy in %soc in relation to 100%soc at 2019.12.1.1

This results in even more devastating charge rates:

73.1kWh*0.75=54.825kWh =>> Nominal Pack Energy at 75%soc w/ 2019.12.1.1
54.825kWh/0.64608kWh=84.86% =>> Same Pack Energy needs ~85%soc w/ 2020.36.11!!

Comparing charge speed after adding the same amount of Pack Energy:
2020.36.11 vs. 2019.12.1.1
85%soc equals 75%soc =>> Pack Energy level: 54.852kWh acc. onboard Diagnostic Mode.
28kW vs. 48kW =>> Charge rate when having same Pack Energy Level

Just my thoughts I wanted to share, not including the non-linear part of the %soc when not-usable Pack Energy is factored into range in high %soc.:rolleyes:



(*)Some backstory: The SeC couldn't repair it remotely "due to a 3rd party emmc and thus no guarantee to be able to help" - after this warning they were very helpful and even said kind of apologetic that they "have to charge me 6 minutes working time" - it was the smallest amount possible. Very nice, it was worth driving 220km instead of the 60ish to my nearest SeC who started lying to me some time ago, but this is another story for a separate thread. ;)
 

marvin72

Member
Jun 3, 2020
5
28
Europe
PS: My account is quite new here thus I am not able to edit my posts to correct spelling errors or wrangled tenses, my apologies... Also it seems that all the formatting with spaces went away after posting, leaving it more difficult to read than intended, thanks for being lenient. :D
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,274
36,738
Oregon
I've recently had to update to 2020.36.11 for getting the CCS update via ranger, afterwards another visit at a SeC to fix unlocking/start/etc. via app (*). Then a downgrade straight back to 2019.12.1.1 to get the max brick voltage cap and the charging rate taper removed.

Does the CCS adapter still work after the downgrade?
 

marvin72

Member
Jun 3, 2020
5
28
Europe
Does the CCS adapter still work after the downgrade?

I've succesfully charged with CCS on two different chargers after the downgrade.

1) The aforementioned ABB 50kW functions with both the CHAdeMO and the CCS adapter, same behavior and in lower %soc the kWh is limited through the voltage of the battery and the max output current. When the %soc rises and thus the battery voltage, with the same max current the charge rate in the car goes up to 48kWh.

2) With a very cold battery after not using the car for three days and temperatures well below freezing I drove less than 10km to a HYC_300 Hypercharger by alpitronic with four power stacks and max 500A DC equals 200kW at 400V. The car was not preheated and %soc at ~10%, thus the voltage was low and the charge rate limited due temp, so it charged only with an average of ~67kWh.

Still no SuC session so far, I will report with a well preheated battery if the "old" f/w restores the original charge rate and how it behaves on v3. :cool:
 
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marvin72

Member
Jun 3, 2020
5
28
Europe
Sorry if I’m missing something, but how did you downgrade the software

According to Tesla SeC a downgrade is not possible. Since it is security related, any discussion in the past to this matter was purged from open forums. I will not provide content which will violate the security and thus force the mods to taking action. Thanks for your understanding!
 

tga

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
4,002
2,872
New Hampshire
another visit at a SeC to fix unlocking/start/etc. via app (*).

(*)Some backstory: The SeC couldn't repair it remotely "due to a 3rd party emmc and thus no guarantee to be able to help" - after this warning they were very helpful and even said kind of apologetic that they "have to charge me 6 minutes working time" - it was the smallest amount possible. Very nice, it was worth driving 220km instead of the 60ish to my nearest SeC who started lying to me some time ago, but this is another story for a separate thread. ;)
FYI, I had the same issue (no remote unlock, start, or trunk/frunk open) after my Tegra daughtercard was replaced. Several posts here point to the car's certificate files not being copied to the new eMMC.

The service advisor told me they were no longer able to do security-related updates remotely; I would need to go to the SC or schedule a ranger visit. Since I am no longer under warranty, I decided to wait until I have other service needs. I assume there will be no charge, since this is part of the daughtercard replacement that I already paid for.
 

sdoorex

Member
Feb 25, 2015
319
952
Front Range, CO
FYI, I had the same issue (no remote unlock, start, or trunk/frunk open) after my Tegra daughtercard was replaced. Several posts here point to the car's certificate files not being copied to the new eMMC.

The service advisor told me they were no longer able to do security-related updates remotely; I would need to go to the SC or schedule a ranger visit. Since I am no longer under warranty, I decided to wait until I have other service needs. I assume there will be no charge, since this is part of the daughtercard replacement that I already paid for.

Pretty bad that they didn’t do that as part of the replacement process and test the functionality before handing the car back over to you.
 

bhzmark

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
3,580
5,436
FYI, I had the same issue (no remote unlock, start, or trunk/frunk open) after my Tegra daughtercard was replaced. Several posts here point to the car's certificate files not being copied to the new eMMC.

The service advisor told me they were no longer able to do security-related updates remotely; I would need to go to the SC or schedule a ranger visit. Since I am no longer under warranty, I decided to wait until I have other service needs. I assume there will be no charge, since this is part of the daughtercard replacement that I already paid for.

try again. as recently as December 28 after I logged the problem in the app for a service visit they messaged this to me and now it works just fine.

"Hello, this is Tesla service. I just went ahead and reset some security files remotely. Can you see if you are still having issues with your app unlock?"
 

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,221
4,287
Central Valley
Until Tesla is sued and forced to accept validity of the owner's data in court. Many jurisdictions have a $10,000 limit on small claims. That would appear to be a better way to sue Tesla than a class action. Small claims courts are far more inclined to agree with a wronged consumer than they are with a bully corporation.

If we all filed small claims actions in our local jurisdictions, Tesla legal would be overwhelmed. Why, exactly, are we trying to make this easy on Tesla?


I am not a lawyer. But I understand that small claims actions vary among the states. It is true that lawyers are barred from presenting evidence and arguing in small claims in California. However, small claims decisions can be appealed. Lawyers are allowed at this level of appeal and any further level of appeal. I don't know whether the appeal is with the same judge, a different judge, or a panel of three Superior Court judges (as is the case with an appeal of a conviction of an infraction.)

I believe -- emphasis on believe -- that in California the defendant in small claims actions can petition the court to consolidate all similar cases within its jurisdiction thus removing the actions from small claims to a full-blown trial court. With 58 counties in California this ostensibly would wind up back where we currently are: a general class action lawsuit that is currently treading water.
 
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Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
2,666
5,597
Logan
We don't currently have a class action lawsuit. We have a suit over crimes committed for secret reasons that is buried under secret delays. We still don't know if there will be a class action over this suit and I'm thinking the 2 year anniversary is where we should all take action for ourselves. Arbitration has gone nowhere slowly and the anniversary is still far enough away for them to surprise us with apologetic transparency (if they ever will).

Every one of us can start our own suits at any time, there is nothing stopping due process.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,274
36,738
Oregon
We don't currently have a class action lawsuit. We have a suit over crimes committed for secret reasons that is buried under secret delays. We still don't know if there will be a class action over this suit and I'm thinking the 2 year anniversary is where we should all take action for ourselves. Arbitration has gone nowhere slowly and the anniversary is still far enough away for them to surprise us with apologetic transparency (if they ever will).

Every one of us can start our own suits at any time, there is nothing stopping due process.

The current suit is a class action suit. And there is no arbitration going on. However, mediation is currently in progress...
 

Mhoepfin

Member
Mar 18, 2019
162
119
Atlanta, GA
We got 2020.48.26 on 12/25/20 for our 2015 AP1 S85 here in germany.

I supercharged the car on 12/31/20 on V2 from 9 to 80% and took a video, including Scan My Tesla live data.
No change in charging speed compared to earlier versions.

- Software 2020.48.26 (Xmas 2020 Update)
- 2 deg. celsius outside temp
- 40 min drive to Supercharger V2 with active preconditioning
- 32 deg. celsius initial battery temp
- 12 stall Supercharger station with only me charging

Video:
Thank you so much for posting this. I was hoping they’d improve the charging taper a bit but oh well.
 

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