Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[fbitz777]

I also wonder how this issue from Gruber in December relates

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
@wk057 !

This is condition 'X' which (unless you are out of warranty) Tesla would fix. I don't think we heard from a member of this thread having that issue.
Now we only need to discuss condition 'Z' and maybe wiki post should be updated.

 

[gmo43]

He didn't owe us anything, but he chose to share his analysis anyhow. Do you have a problem with that?

Yeah he's no battery expert. So il take as a grain of salt. Also he's a little too late. But hey at least it won't hurt his business

 

[JRP3]

Yeah he's no battery expert. So il take as a grain of salt. Also he's a little too late. But hey at least it won't hurt his business

He's more of a battery expert than anyone else commenting in this thread. I hope you took the opinions of everyone else with a much larger grain of salt since none of them have a fraction of the experience he has.

 

[gmo43]

He's more of a battery expert than anyone else commenting in this thread. I hope you took the opinions of everyone else with a much larger grain of salt since none of them have a fraction of the experience he has.

I believe he said he was a software expert. So I'll give him that. But yes I don't take everything here to heart or believe everything. I am still effected by all the conditions in this thread. Happened after such update. I am also on the latest software. But just sad he is not on our side even though it's the lawyers who want blood and sweat not me. I just want my range/capacity and charging speed back.

 

[omarsultan]

Great technical explanation and looking forward to hearing the technical explanation for the SuC slowdown issue

He says, maybe in the Twitter replies, that the SC taper seems more of a policy thing than a technical issue

My battery part number did not appear on the list, but the July 2015 manufacture date may put it on the edge of BMB v1.5 - BMB v2.0 changeover. I received 2020.32.x in late August 2020 but haven’t driven even 2000 miles since then and that includes a road trip.

IIRC, there is a disclaimer that the list of battery part numbers is likely incomplete

 

[fbitz777]

Yeah he's no battery expert. So il take as a grain of salt. Also he's a little too late. But hey at least it won't hurt his business

Neither Condition 'X' nor 'Z; had anything to do with battery! .They are circuit board related (Mosfet and bad soldering) and somewhat software related as for condition 'Z'
Quite a letdown for me as we are almost 2 years in and I am sure Tesla knew early on.

 

[omarsultan]

Simple, years ago Tesla was still figuring it out just like Jason (wk057) was still figuring it out. Hindsight is 20/20. They have a fix now, you could ask why they haven't given a write up to explain the issue after they figured it out but then I'd remind you lawyers got involved.

So time line is something like

* Tesla sees a possible issue and starts testing for it
* Tesla modifies tests enough that users notice
* Users complain
* Tesla looks into it even more closely
* users sue
* Tesla figures out the proper fixes and implements them, can't say much because lawyers already stepped in.

Insert Jason (wk057) into that as a 3rd party and it just adds more lines, no one had full information until after the public outcry.

Lawyers got involved at step 4 in your process out of sheer frustration. All this drama could have been avoided at any point by Tesla with even a modicum of disclosure. A simple "hey, we see an issue, there is no safety concern, we're working on a fix" would have mollified 99% of folks. Instead, they chose to gaslight their customers. It's hard to feel bad about any blowback.

 

[wk057]

Yeah he's no battery expert. So il take as a grain of salt. Also he's a little too late. But hey at least it won't hurt his business

I mean, telling people that the fix for this is completely free and I had nothing to do with it is obviously the best possible move for my business. I'm obviously going to make a killing! Take these example conversations with customers:

Customer: How do I fix this issue?
Me: You install a free update from Tesla and just drive normally and wait a while.

Customer: I want to pay you to fix this or to upgrade my battery.
Me: You're usually better off not doing this. It's more cost effective to sell your vehicle and buy one with the upgrade you want.

Yep. That's how to rake in those profits. I can see the millions rolling in already! lol

I believe he said he was a software expert. So I'll give him that. But yes I don't take everything here to heart or believe everything. I am still effected by all the conditions in this thread. Happened after such update. I am also on the latest software. But just sad he is not on our side even though it's the lawyers who want blood and sweat not me. I just want my range/capacity and charging speed back.

I do software and hardware dev, for the record.

Jokes aside, there's probably a bunch of people still affected. It can take a lot of miles to get things back to normal if you're affected by Condition Z, and I definitely underestimated how little some people drive. That said, if you'd read the writeup you'd know that you'd not have access to the "lost" range/capacity regardless of installing the 2019.16 update. You just wouldn't know it wasn't available until you tried to use it. And if I had a fix for this that was better than what Tesla has already done... well, I'd be happy to share it.

I'm on no one's side. People are temperamental and full of motive/bias. I'm only on the side of facts and rational/logical interpretation of said facts. As it stands, these are the facts.

As I noted, the supercharging limit thing is a whole different can of worms. While my speculation is that this is part of a warranty service avoidance scam, I can't prove that based on the data I have available (yet). It's still definitely not anything safety related.

 

[gmo43]

hilarious. Let’s see how fast the wiki gets updated . . .

I think once tesla admits to it it will be updated.

 

[JRP3]

But just sad he is not on our side even though it's the lawyers who want blood and sweat not me.

Why do you think he's "not on our side"? He's always said what he thinks is the truth, even though some people didn't want to hear it. "Our side" should always be about the truth.

 

[MP3Mike]

I think once tesla admits to it it will be updated.

Because all the other "facts" in the wiki received confirmation from Tesla before they were added, right?

 

[wk057]

Because all the other "facts" in the wiki received confirmation from Tesla before they were added, right?

The facts directly contradict the narrative pushed by many here, so none of those folks will update the Wiki to reflect current information.

That said... it is a Wiki. Anyone (except me, because of the account restrictions) can update it.

(Thanks again to the timely mod)

 

[gmo43]

Because all the other "facts" in the wiki received confirmation from Tesla before they were added, right?

Didn't they push this update for an abundant of caution?

 

[gmo43]

I mean, telling people that the fix for this is completely free and I had nothing to do with it is obviously the best possible move for my business. I'm obviously going to make a killing! Take these example conversations with customers:

Customer: How do I fix this issue?
Me: You install a free update from Tesla and just drive normally and wait a while.

Customer: I want to pay you to fix this or to upgrade my battery.
Me: You're usually better off not doing this. It's more cost effective to sell your vehicle and buy one with the upgrade you want.

Yep. That's how to rake in those profits. I can see the millions rolling in already! lol



I do software and hardware dev, for the record.

Jokes aside, there's probably a bunch of people still affected. It can take a lot of miles to get things back to normal if you're affected by Condition Z, and I definitely underestimated how little some people drive. That said, if you'd read the writeup you'd know that you'd not have access to the "lost" range/capacity regardless of installing the 2019.16 update. You just wouldn't know it wasn't available until you tried to use it. And if I had a fix for this that was better than what Tesla has already done... well, I'd be happy to share it.

I'm on no one's side. People are temperamental and full of motive/bias. I'm only on the side of facts and rational/logical interpretation of said facts. As it stands, these are the facts.

As I noted, the supercharging limit thing is a whole different can of worms. While my speculation is that this is part of a warranty service avoidance scam, I can't prove that based on the data I have available (yet). It's still definitely not anything safety related.

Fair enough....


Let's hope they respond to your write up. I wont hold my breath or think they will.

 

[gmo43]

Why do you think he's "not on our side"? He's always said what he thinks is the truth, even though some people didn't want to hear it. "Our side" should always be about the truth.

Well I use to hold Jason at the level most of you did. Followed him on social media and bought few product of his. Until this update were he decided to wait it out on the sidelines. That made me feel like he wasn't on the side of the consumer or us effected.

 

[gmo43]

Because all the other "facts" in the wiki received confirmation from Tesla before they were added, right?

Anyone can add it dont get your undies in a bunch. If you have the time and ah nm he says he doesnt want it on here so there goes that,

 

[raphy3]

Lawyers got involved at step 4 in your process out of sheer frustration. All this drama could have been avoided at any point by Tesla with even a modicum of disclosure. A simple "hey, we see an issue, there is no safety concern, we're working on a fix" would have mollified 99% of folks. Instead, they chose to gaslight their customers. It's hard to feel bad about any blowback.

this.

 

[raphy3]

As I noted, the supercharging limit thing is a whole different can of worms. While my speculation is that this is part of a warranty service avoidance scam, I can't prove that based on the data I have available (yet). It's still definitely not anything safety related.

Sounds like even more of a reason to make a software patch to enable fast SuCing, as it appears there'd be little danger in doing so.

 

[tga]

Didn't they push this update for an abundant of caution?

"Correlation does not imply causality"

A statement that "we are releasing an update out of an abundance of caution to address ABC" does not mean the next immediate update released is for ABC (that release could have been in the pipeline already), nor does it mean the only thing in the release is for ABC when the release comes out.

Well I use to hold Jason at the level most of you did. Followed him on social media and bought few product of his. Until this update were he decided to wait it out on the sidelines. That made me feel like he wasn't on the side of the consumer or us effected.

It was quite clear, reading between the lines, that lawyers told him to back off lest he be sued.

 

[sorka]

Anyone affected by "Condition Z" who's actually been installing updates in a timely manner should no longer be affected by "Condition Z" by now, or will very soon no longer be affected (algorithms at work). Any range loss will be normal degradation at this point. (I've seen quite a few posts and other data that confirms this.) Edit: You do also have to actually use your vehicle about an average amount or more for this algorithm to get enough data to implement mitigations.

So to be clear, folks who had their batteries capped to 4.1 volts or less (3.99 volts in some cases) because of condition Z will now be allowed to charge up to 4.2 volts again?

I'm still on V8.1 but if I knew I wouldn't have my range, power(because of lower max SOC), and supercharging speed capped, I'd be very tempted to pop the $1500 for the MCU2 upgrade.

And when you say update holdout, do you mean even those who never got 2019.16? I'm not currently effected by any of this because my software is very old. Are you saying that if I update now I'll see a range reduction that will be restored after "many months"? What is many months? Will I see my max charge capped but then slowly restored over a year or two? If so, I'll just stick with V8.1 until I'm forced to have a repair that requires an update.