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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,768
44,254
Central New York
Sure whatever makes you feel better.
I'm not the one so emotionally involved that I make up unlikely scenarios to support my feelings. I'm going by data as always. Tesla is claiming they have evidence of specific theft of documents, including admissions of employees doing so. Thousands of employees have left Tesla over the years, they are only suing a specific few with specific claims. Maybe read the suit if you actually care about the truth.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,332
33,246
Oregon
I'm sure that this will come of no surprise to anyone... Update on the class actions: CAND-ECF-Confirm Request

WHEREAS, the parties are continuing their discussions in good faith and require additional time to complete them;
WHEREAS, the parties desire to preserve the status quo and prevent the parties and the Court
from unnecessarily expending resources pending mediation;
THEREFORE, subject to the approval of the Court, the parties agree and stipulate as
follows: The parties will report to the Court with an update on April 30, 2021. This matter shall
be stayed until that date, and all other case deadlines shall be vacated.

At least they got the year correct this time.
 
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Battpower

Supporting Member
Oct 10, 2019
1,960
1,938
Uk
I have seen a minor, about 1kw increase in nominal capacity correlated with the update last June. It was not immediate.
I don't use TeslaFi so not familiar with its inner workings. I don't understand what the 'battery degradation' graph you posted above actually shows. I don't see that improved readings show reversal of degradation, so on that basis neither does the graph show 'degradation'.

Does it show actual range based on miles driven which would possibly then change range estimate based on factors like temperature, driving style, tire size / condition, etc etc? Imo it must include some factors like these in order for the Estimated 100% range to drop then increase so much.

If you do a long hypermiling drive say from 100% down to 15% that would evidence the actual range as higher than normal, would TeslaFi show a step change in its range estimate?
 
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aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
2,189
1,621
Los Angeles
I don't use TeslaFi so not familiar with its inner workings. I don't understand what the 'battery degradation' graph you posted above actually shows. I don't see that improved readings show reversal of degradation, so on that basis neither does the graph show 'degradation'.

Does it show actual range based on miles driven which would possibly then change range estimate based on factors like temperature, driving style, tire size / condition, etc etc? Imo it must include some factors like these in order for the Estimated 100% range to drop then increase so much.

If you do a long hypermiling drive say from 100% down to 15% that would evidence the actual range as higher than normal, would TeslaFi show a step change in its range estimate?
I don't know everything about Teslafi either. The battery degradation (beta) display clearly shows an upward trend for me since June when I had an update.

The RR shown in the graph is based on the EPA consumption constant. There is a range remaining number which seems to be dependent on the last drive.

SMT confirms this upward trend as it reports actual capacity as well as RR.

Quite happy to have less than 5% actual degradation (77 out of 80.7 KwH) and 265+ RM after 40k miles and nearly 6 years

I don't hypermile, but I see no evidence that going lower than 30, or above 70, SoC, has any effect on BMS calibration or equilization of cells.

Going with traffic and minimal regen has me at 277wh/mi YTD.

Now, it is entirely plausible this gradual increase in range, if caused by Tesla, is not driven but a holistic desire to do the right thing, but rather to make them look good for the lawsuit.
 
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AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,373
3,360
Phoenix, AZ
I'm not the one so emotionally involved that I make up unlikely scenarios to support my feelings. I'm going by data as always. Tesla is claiming they have evidence of specific theft of documents, including admissions of employees doing so. Thousands of employees have left Tesla over the years, they are only suing a specific few with specific claims. Maybe read the suit if you actually care about the truth.
I think we are all intelligent enough to know that any documents revealing Tesla's internal processes are worthless! 😂
 
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sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,866
5,780
Merced, CA
First trip out of town, since they supposedly fixed my HVL node misconfiguration from the mcu2 upgrade and charged me $195, and I'm still getting the same BMS errors with power reduced and needs service messages.
 
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DonovanMS85D

Member
Mar 30, 2019
8
15
Arvada, CO
This is simple observation on my MS85D. Purchased as a CPO on 3/20/19. Published range 270 miles, 100% charge at purchase range 262 miles. 100% charge 4/2/2021 232 miles. When at an SC to charge from 20% to 80% the initial estimated time 35 minutes, actual time 60 to 65 minutes with preconditioning. I recently made the same trip in the Tesla and my ICE vehicle from Ouray, CO to my home in Arvada, CO of 302 miles. Remember that I am driving in mountainous terrain in the winter, using range mode, seat heater on low and heat at 68deg fan speed of 5. The ICE trip with stops was 6 hours, the Tesla took 8.5 hours with 2 stops to charge in Montrose and Salida and arrived home with 40 miles of range. I have been following the Class Action Lawsuit in hopes that the batteries will be replaced and the charge rates will be restored back to a rate that makes this vehicle usable for longer road trips.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
7,866
5,780
Merced, CA
This is simple observation on my MS85D. Purchased as a CPO on 3/20/19. Published range 270 miles, 100% charge at purchase range 262 miles. 100% charge 4/2/2021 232 miles. When at an SC to charge from 20% to 80% the initial estimated time 35 minutes, actual time 60 to 65 minutes with preconditioning. I recently made the same trip in the Tesla and my ICE vehicle from Ouray, CO to my home in Arvada, CO of 302 miles. Remember that I am driving in mountainous terrain in the winter, using range mode, seat heater on low and heat at 68deg fan speed of 5. The ICE trip with stops was 6 hours, the Tesla took 8.5 hours with 2 stops to charge in Montrose and Salida and arrived home with 40 miles of range. I have been following the Class Action Lawsuit in hopes that the batteries will be replaced and the charge rates will be restored back to a rate that makes this vehicle usable for longer road trips.

Coincidentally, I just charged from 20 to 80% a few nights ago at the new 250KW supercharger in Merced and it also took 65 minutes. It started out with the estimate at 40 minutes which is what it would have taken on v8.1.
 

islandbayy

Active Member
Feb 25, 2013
2,650
1,024
Greendale, Wisconsin
Just want to update on the De-Capping of my MS90D and MX75D Supercharging speeds. De-Capped speeds had reached about 124-ish kW on V2 & V3 superchargers. Temps are warming, and since getting my MS back from the body shop after the hit&run, I've put about 4,000 miles on it.

Supercharging speeds have now decreased again, still better than during the caps. Now my Max, regardless of battery temp or SOC, V2 or V3 superchargers, is 112kW on both vehicles. Still MUCH MUCH better than the 94kW cap before. My MS has not charged this fast in almost 5 years! (2nd month of ownership is when my V1 90kWh battery was limited to 94kW charge rate). Model S is at about 105,000 miles now, MX is at abut 95,000 miles.
My MX75D Was at about 137kW charge rate last year before it hit the 10 megawatt DC fast charge threshold and was capped to 94kW.
 

raphy3

Member
May 5, 2017
406
854
Elsewhere
battery warranty is coming up in Dec this year (original build date Dec 2013). bumper to bumper warranty is about to expire in two months. I guess I better figure out if this car is worth keeping or worth selling for the $25k the internet seems to think 2013's are worth. Personally I'd rather not go through the hassle of looking for a new car, but, I don't know how reliable long term this one will be. Getting an extended warranty might not make sense if the battery warranty is going to run out just a few months later. thoughts?
 
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Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
2,626
1,199
QLD, Australia
battery warranty is coming up in Dec this year (original build date Dec 2013). bumper to bumper warranty is about to expire in two months. I guess I better figure out if this car is worth keeping or worth selling for the $25k the internet seems to think 2013's are worth. Personally I'd rather not go through the hassle of looking for a new car, but, I don't know how reliable long term this one will be. Getting an extended warranty might not make sense if the battery warranty is going to run out just a few months later. thoughts?

Depends how much you think your car is worth. Battery replacement is what.... 12k usd for the model S and with another 2500 usd charger upgrade and another 2500 usd for an mcu upgrade may give you essentially a new car if you dont need fancy new tech features?

Maybe watch bjorn nylands millenium falcon videos re: restoration and maintainance work needed on a high milage S?

If you have a P85+ or a signature S I think its worth keeping imho.
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,323
3,276
Colorado, USA
Depends how much you think your car is worth. Battery replacement is what.... 12k usd for the model S and with another 2500 usd charger upgrade and another 2500 usd for an mcu upgrade may give you essentially a new car if you dont need fancy new tech features?

Maybe watch bjorn nylands millenium falcon videos re: restoration and maintainance work needed on a high milage S?

If you have a P85+ or a signature S I think its worth keeping imho.
MCU1 to MCU2 upgrade is $1,500.
 

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