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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,207
4,261
Central Valley
The charge speed throttling is permanent for the affected packs. It was in place before 2019.20, all the way back to 2017 and Tesla admitted it at that time.


I believe the eligibility criteria to be chargegated evolved over time so more cars got impacted. The fact is that we just did not know that was going to be the case when we purchased our cars.

Droschke,

I'm too lazy to pore through nearly 15,000 posts in this thread. But I recall that there were several people on here who stated that they rarely, if ever, utilized L3 charging, yet they noticed that at a recent session at a Supercharger their rates were nerfed as well.

If my recollection is accurate, then there is something else besides frequency or quantity of L3 charge sessions that triggers the reduction in speeds. Perhaps cell age is one factor. Perhaps the BMS loses efficacy over time.

I remember the snarky email from Musk in August 2015 suggesting that I (or anyone for that matter) charge at home instead of Superchargers. Never mind that I had taken two road trips in the preceding ten weeks to Milwaukee and Minneapolis followed by a trip to Portland OR and southeastern British Columbia. I wonder if this letter was an indication that things were not as rosy as originally claimed.
 

BigNick

Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Dec 3, 2017
1,295
1,547
Pennsylvania, USA
Droschke,

I'm too lazy to pore through nearly 15,000 posts in this thread. But I recall that there were several people on here who stated that they rarely, if ever, utilized L3 charging, yet they noticed that at a recent session at a Supercharger their rates were nerfed as well.

If my recollection is accurate, then there is something else besides frequency or quantity of L3 charge sessions that triggers the reduction in speeds. Perhaps cell age is one factor. Perhaps the BMS loses efficacy over time.

I remember the snarky email from Musk in August 2015 suggesting that I (or anyone for that matter) charge at home instead of Superchargers. Never mind that I had taken two road trips in the preceding ten weeks to Milwaukee and Minneapolis followed by a trip to Portland OR and southeastern British Columbia. I wonder if this letter was an indication that things were not as rosy as originally claimed.
I didn't own a Tesla back in August 2015, but it sure sounds like Tesla already knew, even back then, that things would head south quickly for some of their packs if Supercharged a lot. Maybe an early QC issue, maybe less-than-optimal battery chemistry, but they had to know something was up.

Would be interesting to read the text of that email if someone still has it. That may have been the start of the slide into oblivion for Tesla customer service?
 
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cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,207
4,261
Central Valley
I didn't own a Tesla back in August 2015, but it sure sounds like Tesla already knew, even back then, that things would head south quickly for some of their packs if Supercharged a lot. Maybe an early QC issue, maybe less-than-optimal battery chemistry, but they had to know something was up.

Would be interesting to read the text of that email if someone still has it. That may have been the start of the slide into oblivion for Tesla customer service?

Here is a link to a web story with the letter captioned within:

 

Droschke

Active Member
Mar 8, 2015
2,543
4,489
Future
Droschke,

I'm too lazy to pore through nearly 15,000 posts in this thread. But I recall that there were several people on here who stated that they rarely, if ever, utilized L3 charging, yet they noticed that at a recent session at a Supercharger their rates were nerfed as well.

If my recollection is accurate, then there is something else besides frequency or quantity of L3 charge sessions that triggers the reduction in speeds. Perhaps cell age is one factor. Perhaps the BMS loses efficacy over time.

I remember the snarky email from Musk in August 2015 suggesting that I (or anyone for that matter) charge at home instead of Superchargers. Never mind that I had taken two road trips in the preceding ten weeks to Milwaukee and Minneapolis followed by a trip to Portland OR and southeastern British Columbia. I wonder if this letter was an indication that things were not as rosy as originally claimed.

That's why I specifically said:
the eligibility criteria to be chargegated evolved over time

And, you have correctly elaborated on few other variants. I do have a copy of that letter and I know they were not happy with the supercharging usage. Nevertheless, as these batteries age, I believe they can't withstand the fast supercharging, something we were not told about and didn't know when making purchase.
 

Droschke

Active Member
Mar 8, 2015
2,543
4,489
Future
Droschke,

I'm too lazy to pore through nearly 15,000 posts in this thread. But I recall that there were several people on here who stated that they rarely, if ever, utilized L3 charging, yet they noticed that at a recent session at a Supercharger their rates were nerfed as well.

If my recollection is accurate, then there is something else besides frequency or quantity of L3 charge sessions that triggers the reduction in speeds. Perhaps cell age is one factor. Perhaps the BMS loses efficacy over time.

I remember the snarky email from Musk in August 2015 suggesting that I (or anyone for that matter) charge at home instead of Superchargers. Never mind that I had taken two road trips in the preceding ten weeks to Milwaukee and Minneapolis followed by a trip to Portland OR and southeastern British Columbia. I wonder if this letter was an indication that things were not as rosy as originally claimed.

Also, when I bought the car in 2015 the Tesla website had this statement (it was removed later):

"Customers are free to use the (Supercharger) network as much as they like"

as was stated in this article in June of 2015:

 
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BigNick

Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Dec 3, 2017
1,295
1,547
Pennsylvania, USA
Interesting reads, all three linked articles.

My opinion is that any sort of “free for life” or “fixed fee for unlimited usage forever” pricing structures are never a good idea.

There will always be people who take advantage of that type of pricing structure and IMO Elon should have foreseen that himself or taken the advice that must have been provided to him from someone regarding the SC pricing structure being terrible for business in the long run.

5 cents per kWh - obviously selling the electricity at a loss - would still have allowed Tesla to advertise “low cost ” long distance travel. After all, 5 cents x 85 kWh, the largest pack at the time, would have been $4.25 for an empty-to100% charge. Less than two gallons of gasoline. Would people have still “abused” their local SC stations? Probably. But at least they would be deterring some of them, and setting up a “low cost” model - rather than free - would allow for moderate price increases in the future without breaking their “free” promise.

All water under the bridge at this point.
 
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dark cloud

Active Member
Apr 14, 2018
2,072
2,386
BC
Here is a link to a web story with the letter captioned within:


"I’m not sure I’d buy stock in a company that needs cash so badly that it retreats from customer promises just to add a few bucks to the quarterly bottom line."


Ha Ha. If someone didn't listen to his financial advice, and bought at that time, here is what the stock has done since the date of that article. As always, hindsight is 20/20.

Screen Shot 2021-06-26 at 4.41.54 AM.png
 
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tga

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
3,996
2,857
New Hampshire
Kind of relevant to the few posts above, just in today:

To be honest, when I read the headline, I thought this was going to be one of those creative definitions of "life", like free supercharging for the life of the owner, not life of the car. Instead, he's just an inconsiderate, self-centered d-bag who thinks his time is more important than everyone else's.

To his lawyers - please don't try to make this a class. The rest of us want nothing to do with your idiot client.
 

tga

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
3,996
2,857
New Hampshire
The charge speed throttling is permanent for the affected packs. It was in place before 2019.20, all the way back to 2017 and Tesla admitted it at that time.


I believe the eligibility criteria to be chargegated evolved over time so more cars got impacted. The fact is that we just did not know that was going to be the case when we purchased our cars.
Despite that thread's misleading/overly generic title (it should really have been "If you fast charge your 90kWh, Tesla will permanently throttle charging)" that thread is about specific problems with the 90 kWh packs' chemistry.

The slow charging of the original 85's is more about old age/minimizing further degradation.

The end results to the user the may look the same, but the underlying issues are different.
 

Droschke

Active Member
Mar 8, 2015
2,543
4,489
Future
Interesting reads, all three linked articles.

My opinion is that any sort of “free for life” or “fixed fee for unlimited usage forever” pricing structures are never a good idea.

There will always be people who take advantage of that type of pricing structure and IMO Elon should have foreseen that himself or taken the advice that must have been provided to him from someone regarding the SC pricing structure being terrible for business in the long run.

5 cents per kWh - obviously selling the electricity at a loss - would still have allowed Tesla to advertise “low cost ” long distance travel. After all, 5 cents x 85 kWh, the largest pack at the time, would have been $4.25 for an empty-to100% charge. Less than two gallons of gasoline. Would people have still “abused” their local SC stations? Probably. But at least they would be deterring some of them, and setting up a “low cost” model - rather than free - would allow for moderate price increases in the future without breaking their “free” promise.

All water under the bridge at this point.

Agree. But once given as a free and unlimited perk for the life of the car they shouldn't complain. If I remember it correctly, wasn't free unlimited supercharging supposed to be grandfathered to your new Tesla car purchase as well? I think it was and they revoked that too.

On supercharging idle fees, I'm with Tesla as I've seen total arrogance and disrespect to other owners by some, the car being left plugged at the supercharger overnight, left still plugged when charging has long completed and while the owner still shopping, left unplugged but still parked at the charging island, two cars arriving, a Tesla and a non-Tesla, the Tesla driver plugs in and then gets in the non-Tesla car and drive away to come back no one knows when, etc. Tesla should have instituted the idle fee charges from the beginning.
 
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JimmyB

Member
Sep 7, 2014
177
113
Washington, DC
To be honest, when I read the headline, I thought this was going to be one of those creative definitions of "life", like free supercharging for the life of the owner, not life of the car. Instead, he's just an inconsiderate, self-centered d-bag who thinks his time is more important than everyone else's.

To his lawyers - please don't try to make this a class. The rest of us want nothing to do with your idiot client.

Couldn’t agree more. I’d happily sign up to a class action on Chargegate / reduced SC speeds, but this is ridiculous.
 

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,207
4,261
Central Valley
Also, when I bought the car in 2015 the Tesla website had this statement (it was removed later):

"Customers are free to use the (Supercharger) network as much as they like"

as was stated in this article in June of 2015:


Tesla has earned a reputation where the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. I wonder how much discretion and autonomy various departmental heads and middle management personnel have that do not require the embossed 24kt Pt signet ring stamp of approval from Musk.

These sorts of contradictions and inconsistencies seem to indicate that someone makes a decision or statement only to be overruled later on by Musk or one of his minions. In the alternative, Musk orders something and the message gets lost or altered as it makes its way down the food chain.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,153
36,444
Oregon
Any update on the suit. Let me guess another extension.

Yep, no surprise there. The surprise is that the extension isn't for a full month like every one in the past has been. Maybe that means they are getting close to something?

THEREFORE, subject to the approval of the Court, the parties agree and stipulate as follows: The parties will report to the Court with an update on July 16, 2021. This matter shall be stayed until that date, and all other case deadlines shall be vacated.

 
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