Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[DJRas]

I have screenshots of TM-Spy with 2019.12.1 vs 2019.20.2.1. I gave a slight - about 0.7 kWh or 1% capacity drop within this time. I don’t know if it was 2019.16.x that caused it or “normal “ degradation.

May 22:
View attachment 424626

June 28:
View attachment 424627

Under 2019.12.1, Pack = 78.2 kWh.
Under 2019.20.2.1, Pack = 77.5 kWh.

Tesla app reports 250 mile range (253 was the advertised range new):
View attachment 424628

I would be very interested to see if reverting to 2019.12.1 or 2018.50.1 would put my Pack back to 78.2 kWh. I also know this is not possible unfortunately.

You have normal degradation.
Those of us affected sre seeing 6-8 kWh loss over a few weeks.

 

[gmo43]

It sounds like they are possibly acknowledging the current limits are heavier-handed than absolutely necessary - either reducing max charge voltage by more than required for safety until they can either perform more testing, or better identify the battery packs that need more reductions for their individual condition but the software to diagnose said condition hasn’t been written yet?

This is 99.44% pure speculation on my part.

I've had two update since and nothing has been fixed.

 

[Gixx1300R]

I've had two update since and nothing has been fixed.

What update are you on now, that information would be helpful

 

[CuriousG]

New app drawer is the only thing I’ve noticed...

Or if you have a Model 3, Beach Buggy 2 Tesla game is included.

 

[Leeboy22001]

Game isn't much of a consolation for lost range, and only for MCU2 cars

 

[DW254]

Just to add to this thread - I have an affected car - and to clarify and balance the long post - up to this point have genuinely 'loved' our Tesla MS.

I have a 2016 MS85D with a 85kWh 400VDC - ‘A’ pack. So just over 3 years old and have completed just over 64K miles.

The below assessment of the battery software range reduction, is not through some sophisticated process such as CAN bus snooping, Teslafi or other hi-tech process, but since I’ve had the car I have noted my SoC % charge as well as indicated instant range taking a quick couple of pics each time so have a history of my charges for the last 3 years.

I have done a significant amount of DC charging whether that be SuC or Chademo, however I generally charge to between 80-85%, on a number of occasions have charged to between 80-95% for longer trips/holidays - and very rarely over the three years (between 5-8 times approx) have I charged to 100%.

I don’t drive like an idiot, don’t have a heavy foot and my tyres last about 33K miles per set - after 64K miles I am still on my second set front and have literally just had new rears.

Back in 2016 the one or two 100% charges that I did do, gave me 264 miles of range and 80% provided me with 214 miles of range. These were real world ranges for those who say batteries don’t store miles - I have done a fair amount of long distance trips and achieved the indicated ranges.

I have family that live around 100 miles (200 roundtrip) from where we live and on a 85% charge I could drive to them, do some local driving/sightseeing, then do a return journey and still have some miles/capacity range left in the tank. I can no longer do that after the software release and have to detour to a charger and add around two hours to my journey.

So roll onto recently just prior to the 2019.16.2 software update about 6 weeks ago and the 2019.20.21.1 update two days ago.

• Literally just prior to the software update, a 80% charge gave me 205 miles of range (so a reduction of 9 miles over 3 years or about 4% degradation) - from all I’ve seen and read reasonable and normal degradation - no problem.
• A couple of months back I had occasion to do a 100% charge and that gave me 256 miles of range (so a 8 miles or again around 3-4% degradation).

Post software update;

• 80% charge now has 181 miles of range (a loss of 24 miles or 12% in a few weeks and a hundred or so miles in between this and the last charge pre-software update).
• 100% charge now has 226 miles of range (a loss of 30 miles or 12% in the same few weeks).

I have also noticed that I lost 4 of those miles between my last charge and yesterday’s so don’t know if it will keep dropping!

By the way, for those saying the new 100% is the old 90%, it took about 50 minutes to get to 90% charge and a further 50 minutes to get to 100% - so the charging time has not changed - but I now have 12% less useable range/capacity.

I wasn’t aware of the developing issue on-line and clearly concerned I contacted Tesla Services about my range/battery capacity and received the following response;

I have performed a health check on your battery and cannot see any issues there. You may be able to improve the accuracy of your range estimate, especially if the vehicle is regularly charged to the same %.

Having done some research and found info on this and other forums as well as the ‘electrek’ article, I again contacted the same ‘virtual service advisor’ challenging the previous response. As at the time of the purchase back in 2016 I had toyed with paying the circa £4K for upgrading my 85kWh pack to the 90kWh pack, somewhat tongue in cheek I said that if Tesla had decided to remove roughly 10kWh’s in capacity, perhaps they would wish to offer me a refund of circa £8K. I also asked for the matter to be escalated internally - I was then informed;

The recent change to the charging profile of you Tesla is designed to protect the battery by offering better long term capacity retention and performance. This change was carried out due to the natural degradation on your vehicle’s battery back.

As a manufacturer, we do not warrant the vehicles battery pack for capacity. I have carried out a remote health check on the vehicle and can find no faults.

As your vehicle is performing within parameters we are unable to escalate this any further, nor are we able to offer any kind of refund.

I could go on, but this post is long enough. Suffice it to say that I recontacted the Tesla Virtual Service Advisor and explained that if the matter wasn't escalated, capacity reduction rolled back or a better explanation, I would seek legal advice - I was informed;

I have escalated your battery capacity concerns to our Engineering Team for further clarification and will update you when I hear back.

So I now wait for 'further clarification' ..

As you can imagine I am not particularly happy with the way the matter has been handled or communicated - or should I say 'not communicated'. I cannot see how it is 'legal' for Tesla to be able to 'artificially' enforce what is effectively the degradation of your battery pack (whatever the reason) post sale of the contracted goods i.e. the car as was described at point of sale.

Because of the lack of communication regarding this whole issue (and happy to stand corrected if this was a simple flaw in the software or there is a simpler explanation) I am left with no option other than the cynical thought that the battery pack will not perform as thought and will fail prior to the 8 year warranty limit.

 

[Gixx1300R]

 

[DW254]

liamharry:

I'm waiting to hear back from Tesla on an escalation issue as well. Very similar story. My 2014 S85 lost 12% range with update. Visited the Rocklin Service Center with Electrek article, plot maps and spreadsheet of 30 Tesla's with similar range loss in hand. Reps there at first seemed unaware of the issue and wanted to do the battery tests. I showed quotes from threads from this feed of many who had the tests only to verify range loss was a result of the update.

My request has now been escalated. I mentioned to the service supervisor there is a group from the Teslamotorclub who are talking class action suit if we don't have our range returned, which seemed to get his attention. I shared with him the options for Tesla: a software fix to return the 12% lost range, a new battery with the range I purchased, or a $10,070 refund for the Model S85 price premium I paid but now have somewhere between an S60 and S70 after their reduced travel range update.

He promised to get back to me early next week. Will keep all posted.

 

[Peter Lucas]

Thanks for the advise, the initial rating of this car was 270 miles or 435 kilometer. So the loss is much more then 2%. If the loss would be gradual it would concern me less, but a sudden loss of 5% of max range in 2 weeks is what bugs me.

I was hoping that someone had seen this before.

I would be more interested in what your real, achievable range is. The displayed range may be total fiction. On my 90D the full charge displayed range is and always has been around 280 miles. Yet my battery is degraded to about 73 kwh and my achievable range is about 200-220 miles.
It is so popular to use full charge displayed range as an indication of battery degradation. But it may be total fiction. What you should be interested in is useable battery capacity in kwh. This can be calculated using kwh used and percent battery used after a long trip.

 

[faughtz]

The usable capacity in kWh is reduced. If you look at some of data the owners have provided in this thread you will notice the kWh lost, which translates to range loss.

And performance.

 

[Droschke]

And performance.

And, I keep forgetting about your car

 

[DJRas]

liamharry:

I'm waiting to hear back from Tesla on an escalation issue as well. Very similar story. My 2014 S85 lost 12% range with update. Visited the Rocklin Service Center with Electrek article, plot maps and spreadsheet of 30 Tesla's with similar range loss in hand. Reps there at first seemed unaware of the issue and wanted to do the battery tests. I showed quotes from threads from this feed of many who had the tests only to verify range loss was a result of the update.

My request has now been escalated. I mentioned to the service supervisor there is a group from the Teslamotorclub who are talking class action suit if we don't have our range returned, which seemed to get his attention. I shared with him the options for Tesla: a software fix to return the 12% lost range, a new battery with the range I purchased, or a $10,070 refund for the Model S85 price premium I paid but now have somewhere between an S60 and S70 after their reduced travel range update.

He promised to get back to me early next week. Will keep all posted.

I am scheduled to return to Oceanside Service Center on Tuesday. My data is in the Electrek article.
I will pay for their test and expect them to say everything is fine and charge me the $253.
I want to hear their entire explanation and review their data(knowing they won't give me a copy).
Then work through all my newly acquired data with them. Including threat of class action.
Having sustained actual financial loss ($253) instead of theoretical loss (loss of range - reduced value of the car, etc) I will then have legal standing in the case.

 

[MP3Mike]

My request has now been escalated. I mentioned to the service supervisor there is a group from the Teslamotorclub who are talking class action suit if we don't have our range returned, which seemed to get his attention. I shared with him the options for Tesla: a software fix to return the 12% lost range, a new battery with the range I purchased, or a $10,070 refund for the Model S85 price premium I paid but now have somewhere between an S60 and S70 after their reduced travel range update.

The first option should really be for someone to go through arbitration. (It appears to have worked for people with the yellow border on their MCU that Tesla didn't want to fix.) Arbitration is much faster and less expensive, and the first step is binding on Tesla but not the car owner.

 

[Whiteblaze]

I posted earlier in this thread (6/21, #311) that my P85D's 100% range had gone down from 244 to 215. Welp, I just charged to 100% and now it's down to 211. I updated the spreadsheet.

And holy guacamole, here's what Remote S says about my 85 kwh battery:

 

[BoerumHill]

This thread is disturbing. I hope some of the affected owners will try arbitration. Owners have to take action...or accept this as the new normal.

GLA

 

[Peter Lucas]

Sorry to go on a slight tangent here:
What are the methods, systems to get at this detailed battery data from your car?
Model S 90D, early 2016

 

[Gixx1300R]

This thread is disturbing. I hope some of the affected owners will try arbitration. Owners have to take action...or accept this as the new normal.

GLA

Or sue Tesla since they took away value of the car, Essentially locking an 85kw battery pack to the level of a 70.

 

[tnt1971]

Anyone figure out what the common thread here is on range loss? I have an 85D built in February, 2016. I have done all the software updates and I have not seen the range loss. My car has 59k on it.

 

[Peter Lucas]

Anyone figure out what the common thread here is on range loss? I have an 85D built in February, 2016. I have done all the software updates and I have not seen the range loss. My car has 59k on it.

Here is what appears to have happened: A mid-May software update caused the battery charging system to stop charging at somewhat less than a full charge. The new charging algorithm may be more complicated than simply stopping at a reduced voltage. There may be a cell balancing process also. In any event, when the battery stops at less than a full charge the obvious consequence is that there is less available energy when "fully" charged. Less available energy means less full charge range. The reduction appears to be about 5%-15% less energy and range.
The purpose of this software update was reported to be to reduce the risk of battery fires and to prolong the life of the battery. Of note, the display in the car was reset so that when the battery is finished charging to this less than full charge, the display shows 100%. Its 100% of what you are allowed to have. But that is about 90% of what the battery could hold if it were fully charged. It seems unclear why some cars are affected more than others. It may relate to how well balanced the cells were at the time of the update.

 

[sorka]

I posted earlier in this thread (6/21, #311) that my P85D's 100% range had gone down from 244 to 215. Welp, I just charged to 100% and now it's down to 211. I updated the spreadsheet.

And holy guacamole, here's what Remote S says about my 85 kwh battery:
View attachment 424768

33 miles of range lost from the update. Highest I've seen yet. Any idea what your voltage is at 90% or 100%?