Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[DJRas]

Below is a copy of the Tesla Model S Battery Warranty from the 2014 owner’s Quick Guide manual.

Battery Limited Warranty

The Model S lithium-ion battery (the “Battery”) is an extremely sophisticated powertrain component designed to withstand extreme driving conditions. You can rest easy knowing that Tesla’s state-of-the-art Battery is backed by this Battery Limited Warranty, which covers the repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective Battery, subject to the limitations described below.

If your Battery requires warranty service, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a factory reconditioned unit that has an energy capacity at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred. To provide you with even more assurance, this Battery Limited Warranty will also cover damage to your vehicle from a Battery fire even if it is the result of driver error. (Coverage will not extend to damage that had already been sustained before a Battery fire occurred, or to any damage if the Battery fire occurred after your vehicle had already been totaled.) Your vehicle’s Battery is covered under this Battery Limited Warranty for a period of 8 years or for the number of miles/km specified below for your Battery configuration, whichever comes first:

• 60 kWh – 125,000 miles (200,000 km)
• 85 kWh – unlimited miles/km

Despite the breadth of this warranty, damage resulting from intentional actions (including intentionally abusing or destroying your vehicle, or ignoring active vehicle warnings), a collision or accident (excluding from Battery fires as specified above), or the servicing or opening of the Battery by non-Tesla personnel, is not covered under this Battery Limited Warranty.

In addition, damage resulting from the following activities is not covered under this Battery Limited Warranty:

• Exposing the vehicle to ambient temperatures above 140°F (60°C) or below -22°F (-30°C) for more than 24 hours at a time;
• Physically damaging the Battery, or intentionally attempting, either by physical means, programming, or other methods, to extend (other than as specified in your owner documentation) or reduce the life of the Battery;
• Exposing the Battery to direct flame (excluding from Battery fires as specified above); or,
• Flooding of the Battery.
• The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery.

 

[DJRas]

The battery pack in your car is obviously very important and expensive to replace. In developing the
Model S, we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent
of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours.
Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional
abuse (lighting the pack on fire with a blowtorch is not covered!), all damage is covered by warranty,
including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on
end. The battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal
to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred.
The intent is to provide complete peace of mind about owning your Model S even if you never read or
followed the instructions in the manual.
Elon

 

[lightningltd]

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Batter

Note this phrase: "The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty". I bolded key parts. If your car is a 2014 or older THIS is the proper and legally binding warrantee, NOT the one Tesla gave the arbitrators.
The loss of capacity was NOT gradual or resulting from battery usage, as stated in the warrantee and therefore covered.
The fact that Tesla presented a differently worded warrantee shows they are trying to fool the arbitrator. Like ANY contract, ANY modifications have to be ratified by BOTH parties. The warrantee in force at the time of sale is the valid one otherwise.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

The battery pack in your car is obviously very important and expensive to replace. In developing the
Model S, we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent
of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours.
Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional
abuse (lighting the pack on fire with a blowtorch is not covered!), all damage is covered by warranty,
including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on
end. The battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal
to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred.
The intent is to provide complete peace of mind about owning your Model S even if you never read or
followed the instructions in the manual.
Elon

Wow, that’s a very useful quote. Can I ask from where and when please?

 

[lightningltd]

Wow, that’s a very useful quote. Can I ask from where and when please?

April 2013:
Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program
Tesla's New Service Program May Actually Be The Best In The World
Tesla Announces "World's Best" Warranty | The CarGurus Blog
to name a few. Notice where the FIRST is from? (Tesla.com)

 

[FredTMC]

The subset of owners reported on this list we know for sure. Some are still on % display. Some not on this thread.

On Edit: My fear is that if the number is, let's say, about 100-ish, we won't get that much traction to get this resolved soon due to the tiny size.

If there’s 100 people currently reporting, than the actually number affected is probably thousands

 

[Chaserr]

Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program

The actual number of impacted cars must be immense for so many of us to be affected.

 

[sorka]

Quote from Musk:

"In developing the Model S, we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours"

 

[mjmiron]

I am in the process of requesting a battery claim with my local SC and waiting for them to call me back. i am not sure this will go anywhere but i am trying to go through the steps to get this rectified. I also filed a complaint with the MN Attorney General Keith Ellison which they said should be sending a response out to Tesla. I will keep you posted on these and how they progress.

 

[bhzmark]

Warranty claims are the primary claim buyers have against sellers. What is the legal claim for a non warranty claim? "Unauthorized software modification" is not a legal claim. If the software modification affected the product in some way, you would look to see if it constituted a breach of warranty.

This issue has nothing to do with the warranty and any complaint on that basis will lose.

The issue is simply that Tesla prevents the affected cars from charging to full existing capacity. It has nothing to do with warranty or estimating range.

 

[fbitz777]

If there’s 100 people currently reporting, than the actually number affected is probably thousands

The key would be for all users of S and X to start using miles instead of percentage....I actually found out that my trips are always arriving to within a percent of planned BUT it is quite off (5-10%) when using miles.

 

[qwk]

Warranty claims are the primary claim buyers have against sellers. What is the legal claim for a non warranty claim? "Unauthorized software modification" is not a legal claim. If the software modification affected the product in some way, you would look to see if it constituted a breach of warranty.

Well in this case(and many others starting with software 5.8.8) Tesla took away things that were bought and paid for. Not something that is legal, and has monetary damages that could lead to a settlement at the very minimum.

 

[lightningltd]

The key would be for all users of S and X to start using miles instead of percentage....I actually found out that my trips are always arriving to within a percent of planned BUT it is quite off (5-10%) when using miles.

That does not solve the issue of Tesla taking usable charge away. Switching to percent will not get me to the places I can no longer go due to the removal of usable power.

 

[Droschke]

If the software modification affected the product in some way, you would look to see if it constituted a breach of warranty.

Let's turn it a bit around and say this:

If the software modification affected the product warranty, by limiting the battery capacity with the intention to avoid battery warranty replacement in 8 years, you are looking at the breach of warranty.

 

[sorka]

Warranty claims are the primary claim buyers have against sellers.

Not even remotely true.

 

[faughtz]

Here is Tesla's response to my NCDS action. There are a number of inaccuracies and questionable assertions in this document, detailed discussion of which I will withhold until the hearing. However, the referenced text of 14 June was never received, and appears to never have been sent – and it’s especially revealing of the implementation of “charge limit” changes. I especially like the guidance of charging to something less than 100% to reduce the impact of the reduction in range. And I will again remind everyone, including Tesla, that this is not just capacity or range reduction, it’s also a dramatic reduction of maximum acceleration performance.

 

[GHammer]

Tesla, that this is not just capacity or range reduction, it’s also a dramatic reduction of maximum acceleration performance.

and reduction of Supercharger speed and increase in vampire drain.

 

[qwk]

It's amazing how incompetent tesla's reply is. They admit that they modified the software, and reduced range, but everything is fine? If everything was fine, there would be no need to modify software.

 

[lightningltd]

It's amazing how incompetent tesla's reply is. They admit that they modified the software, and reduced range, but everything is fine? If everything was fine, there would be no need to modify software.

I especially like the word 'slightly'. a 10-15% loss in ONE day is not SLIGHT.

 

[sorka]

Here is Tesla's response to my NCDS action. There are a number of inaccuracies and questionable assertions in this document, detailed discussion of which I will withhold until the hearing. However, the referenced text of 14 June was never received, and appears to never have been sent – and it’s especially revealing of the implementation of “charge limit” changes. I especially like the guidance of charging to something less than 100% to reduce the impact of the reduction in range. And I will again remind everyone, including Tesla, that this is not just capacity or range reduction, it’s also a dramatic reduction of maximum acceleration performance.

This is just basically a repeat of what techs have been telling customers so now we know Tesla's legal department crafted the messaging.

The response completely ignores the facts and focus estimated range. Basically a standard magicians distraction technique to try and confuse the arbiter.

Do you get to respond to this?