Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[mymagiccarpet]

Having gotten back 10 out of 30 miles loss, I strongly believe I would never get the entire 30 miles back. Additionally and being distrustful of Tesla, and based on their irresponsible behavior exhibited here, I even tend to believe that this 10 miles or so RM gain in my case is probably temporary in order to dampen the outrage and will be put back in again gradually and silently. They have lost my trust for sure.

Exactly. With time passing by, this will turn into "this equals to average loss of 3% (or whatever it is) per year, so it's normal".
And maybe they are working hard on figuring out how to fix this situation, who would know, when there doesn't seem to be truthful communication coming out.

 

[sandpiper]

Gallows humor, but we know they don't from their glaring failures to test assorted hardware when they rolled out v9.

Ah... ok. Not to excuse the failures, but I suspect that they do a LOT of testing on older cars. And I know from my own experience that, even in modular systems, with well specified interfaces, and where the connected systems SHOULD be compatible, there will be a lot of bizarre and unexpected failures when you connect system revisions that had not been connected before. Sometimes it's new bugs but sometimes you're just exposing pre-existing bugs that were always there, but for some reason had no noticeable effect.

And if what I've heard about Tesla's software team is even partially true, then they're well justified in being nervous about putting things to the field that had never been hooked together before.

 

[Droschke]

... And if what I've heard about Tesla's software team is even partially true, then they're well justified in being nervous about putting things to the field that had never been hooked together before.

"well justified"?

So, we are now supposed to feel sorry for them for "being nervous about putting things to the field that had never been hooked together before"?

Something new today

 

[Droschke]

With time passing by, this will turn into "this equals to average loss of 3% (or whatever it is) per year, so it's normal".

Very probable.

... And maybe they are working hard on figuring out how to fix this situation ...

Hard to believe.

 

[sandpiper]

"well justified"?

So, we are now supposed to feel sorry for them for "being nervous about putting things to the field that had never been hooked together before"?

Something new today

I never said it was something to be proud of. It's just reality.

 

[lightningltd]

Since Elon and Tesla are quiet maybe we should all log on to Tesla .com and use the chat feature and ask when they are going to fix our damn cars? Maybe then they would wake up.

As long as we all ask it the same way, we can see how many different canned BS answers we get...
We must NOT ask about range. We need to ask about the locked out KW and usable power (acceleration)

Such as "I would like to know why Tesla has suddenly locked out xx% of my usable KW since update 2019.16 and when it will be returned. I would also like to know why my supercharging has been reduced by 50% and my acceleration limited? Is there a fire danger or battery issue that I need to know about? When will these issues be resolved?"

substitute the ##% with your percentage of loss since 2019.16

 

[mjmiron]

As long as we all ask it the same way, we can see how many different canned BS answers we get...
We must NOT ask about range. We need to ask about the locked out KW and usable power (acceleration)

Such as "I would like to know why Tesla has suddenly locked out xx% of my usable KW since update 2019.16 and when it will be returned. I would also like to know why my supercharging has been reduced by 50% and my acceleration limited? Is there a fire danger or battery issue that I need to know about? When will these issues be resolved?"

substitute the ##% with your percentage of loss since 2019.16

IMHO and based on the answer I got about thermal management it’s feeling like a safety issue that should have warranted a recall.

 

[Leeboy22001]

I think my last increment was this morning, my S60 is now showing 48.5kWh usable, and 51.3kWh nominal full pack. Lowest was 46.4kWh usable, 49.2kWh full usable pack, so 2.1kWh. Rated is now 213, Typical 168.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I think my last increment was this morning, my S60 is now showing 48.5kWh usable, and 51.3kWh nominal full pack. Lowest was 46.4kWh usable, 49.2kWh full usable pack, so 2.1kWh. Rated is now 213, Typical 168.

So they cap about 10 kWhs by reducing the cell voltage from 4.2V to about 4.07V then push out an update that increases the voltage by one or two tenths of a volt, perhaps up to 4.08V or 4.09V, which recovers 5 miles or so out of the 25-30 lost. I am finding it very difficult not to class this as a lip service change, designed more to reassure rather than fix. MyMagicCarpet worried that in one or two years, whilst we are still trying to get this capping removed, they say, but we issued a fix a couple of years ago, and indeed most people got some miles back. What you are seeing now is just normal degradation. Go away, it’s not a Warranty Issue.

Nail, hammer, head

 

[Ferrycraigs]

then push out an update that increases the voltage by one or two tenths of a volt, perhaps up to 4.08V or 4.09V, which recovers 5 miles or so out of the 25-30 lost.

Actually the increase is only one or two hundredths of a volt.

 

[mjmiron]

I am gaining little by little my mileage back this morning it went up another mile I am driving in MN with range mode on and running on average 280-300 kw/mi so went from 210 to 219 prior to June had 234 at 90% so little more to go.

 

[Leeboy22001]

So they cap about 10 kWhs by reducing the cell voltage from 4.2V to about 4.07V then push out an update that increases the voltage by one or two tenths of a volt, perhaps up to 4.08V or 4.09V, which recovers 5 miles or so out of the 25-30 lost. I am finding it very difficult not to class this as a lip service change, designed more to reassure rather than fix. MyMagicCarpet worried that in one or two years, whilst we are still trying to get this capping removed, they say, but we issued a fix a couple of years ago, and indeed most people got some miles back. What you are seeing now is just normal degradation. Go away, it’s not a Warranty Issue.

Nail, hammer, head

Max cell voltage is around 4.09V, only did a 90% charge a few days ago and was at 4.040V.
But agree, with assumptions

 

[boywonder]

I think an even bigger concern now than the battery capping Is the massively reduced Supercharging speeds.

Normally at 20% SOC charge start I would see around 114-118 kWh. Today it started at 90 and then dropped to around 80kwh in around a minute.

The change seems to be worse following the 2019.28.2 update. I’ll share a graph later on.

Not only do we need our capacity back but Supercharging needs to get faster too.

If the packs can’t cope with either reinstating capacity or Supercharging speeds, then Tesla please would you kindly replace them as they appear to be faulty.

 

[dark cloud]

I think you missed his point. He's speculating that Tesla is trying to get him to "tick the box" so that they can use that against him in the future when he tries to get service on his car/batter. Sorry sir, but we already have proof that you admitted there were no problems with the car on xx/xx/xxxx date.

Exactly.

I don't see a battery issue as a mechanical problem, so I think you are okay ticking the box. If the wording was "any known issues" or "deficiencies" then of course that would be different.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I don't see a battery issue as a mechanical problem, so I think you are okay ticking the box. If the wording was "any known issues" or "deficiencies" then of course that would be different.

Possibly, but I’ve seen, first hand, how they interpret what appears to be an unambiguous Battery Warranty, so I don’t see why they wouldn’t be equally as disingenuous with this. They are not getting the chance!

 

[David99]

Supercharging with these batteries is now roughly half of the advertised speed. This is significantly impacting long range travelling.

I have seen and documented the reduced supercharger speed for a long time. Tesla has reduced the speed gradually over the last 3. There has been more reduction recently but I'm not sure it was that specific update. Also, the supercharger speed reduction seems to affect all old batteries, not just a small number of cars.

I don't think we have a chance in court when it comes to supercharger speed. Tesla has always said actual speed depends on many factors. Their advertising was always worded 'up to'.

I went to my local service center and showed them detailed info how the charge speed has been reduced and they just said 'that's what happens when the battery gets older'.

 

[tga]

Also, the supercharger speed reduction seems to affect all old batteries, not just a small number of cars.

I am not impacted by "batterygate" (100%=4.17-4.19V resting), but my Supercharging speeds have dropped 10-15kW throughout the curve.

 

[FairFrank]

... I went to my local service center and showed them detailed info how the charge speed has been reduced and they just said 'that's what happens when the battery gets older'.

It matters what they said at the time of the sale. Tesla promised longrange travelling would be made possible by their 120kW SuC network. Cripling that functionality (in my MS within 5 years) isn’t reasonably matching with that.
I am not asking for court cases. Just asking them to find a decent solution to keep this unique generation on the move.

 

[David99]

I am not impacted by "batterygate" (100%=4.17-4.19V resting), but my Supercharging speeds have dropped 10-15kW throughout the curve.

Same here. I haven't lost range by voltage limiting but I'm severely affected by slower supercharger speed. My reduction is more than yours. I would say approx 50 to 70% more time spent at the supercharger when I do road trips.

 

[David99]

I am not asking for court cases. Just asking them to find a decent solution to keep this unique generation on the move.

While I want the same thing, the post about the 'science behind battery degradation' has been eye opening. What Tesla is concerned with and we should be, too, is the catastrophic failure of the cells after the quasi linear degradation. After a long time of linear degradation the feedback effects will increase the rate of degradation to a level where the battery will become useless within a short time. I believe that's the underlying problem here that Tesla is trying to avoid. For good reasons. Not making excuses for Tesla, but that's just what's happening inside a battery.

Battery Degradation Scientifically Explained