Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[jaitch]

Question. In the unlikely event that Tesla has a Damascene moment and agree to fix, and as they no longer make pre facelift batteries, will the newer batteries actually fit (I really mean are they compatible?). Would it likely be a 75 battery capped to 70 in my case? Is that technically possible?

The 90 pack will fit surely and it is still a current part - two part numbers one for L and one for non L. The only issue is with fitting a 100 pack which is more of a mission and not relevant. So yes they can do it. In fact Tesla are still listing 70 packs and a reman 75 pack in their parts catalogue (for pre 2016) as well as the 90s. They have a few options to solve the battery replacement issues once they wake up.

 

[Droschke]

The 90 pack will fit surely and it is still a current part - two part numbers one for L and one for non L. The only issue is with fitting a 100 pack which is more of a mission and not relevant. So yes they can do it. In fact Tesla are still listing 70 packs and a reman 75 pack in their parts catalogue (for pre 2016) as well as the 90s. They have a few options to solve the battery replacement issues once they wake up.

View attachment 487845

It's odd that only 75kWh pack is listed as REMAN (re-manufactured) but 70 and 90 are not. Also, all being listed in the catalog does not necessarily mean available.

 

[KidDoc]

Ok with the most recent update my previously recovered range is gone again (March 2014 S85). My max charge seems to be around 247 when original was 265 and most recent recovery was 257ish. Also when max charging there is a constant electric buzzing/humming in the garage.

 

[islandbayy]

Thinking the V1 90's are starting to get incorporated into Charge Gate even more so than before and possibly even battery gate. I wanted to supercharge a couple of times to test my observations out.

For the record, I'm still on one of the last versions of 8.1. I have not connected my car to wifi in over 1 1/2 years.
To stop the car from nagging me to setup a wifi connection, I had connected to an old Linksys router that was not online when I got my car. Well, apparently after 3 1/2 years with my car, it FOUND an actual Linksys router with the Linksys SSI and no security.

Before this, my 90 pack was acting like a 90, I've been capped to 94-95kW charge rate since the second month I've owned it (And halfway through the first road trip!). The range has always sucked and lowered quickly as you'd expect from a 90kWh V1 pack. It's a POS....


So, while out and about, and I was parked on the street, unknown to me, my car connected to an unsecured Linksys access point, and downloaded whatever latest firmware they are trying to get me on.
NO, I DID NOT INSTALL IT!.

Here's the interesting part though. Since that firmware was queued, I have not been able to charge over 95-96% SOC! Next, with a warm battery, around 90*F, my maximum supercharger speed has been ~76 kWh. FURTHER, starting at about 30-40% SOC through charge completion, the cooling fans are running Balls-To-The-Wall FULL Ready for Blast-Off speed. Here is the kicker, it's been about 15*F-45*F. Never have I had this level of cooling, even with a HOT 113*F battery when it's this cold outside. Even the AC compressor going full blast.
As I said, I wanted to test this out a couple of times and at different supercharger locations. Results seem to be about the same with slight variance at all locations.

Thinking, they are getting Sneaky, might have sent a change without actually upgrading the Firmware. And to take it a FINAL step, the Update Clock disappeared after supercharging last night. The last time I had the update clock, I had to cancel it for 6 months before it went away. This time 2 weeks. Took 2 1/2 hrs to get to ~85%.


Just sharing findings.

 

[xbox4me62]

Thinking the V1 90's are starting to get incorporated into Charge Gate even more so than before and possibly even battery gate. I wanted to supercharge a couple of times to test my observations out.

For the record, I'm still on one of the last versions of 8.1. I have not connected my car to wifi in over 1 1/2 years.
To stop the car from nagging me to setup a wifi connection, I had connected to an old Linksys router that was not online when I got my car. Well, apparently after 3 1/2 years with my car, it FOUND an actual Linksys router with the Linksys SSI and no security.

Before this, my 90 pack was acting like a 90, I've been capped to 94-95kW charge rate since the second month I've owned it (And halfway through the first road trip!). The range has always sucked and lowered quickly as you'd expect from a 90kWh V1 pack. It's a POS....


So, while out and about, and I was parked on the street, unknown to me, my car connected to an unsecured Linksys access point, and downloaded whatever latest firmware they are trying to get me on.
NO, I DID NOT INSTALL IT!.

Here's the interesting part though. Since that firmware was queued, I have not been able to charge over 95-96% SOC! Next, with a warm battery, around 90*F, my maximum supercharger speed has been ~76 kWh. FURTHER, starting at about 30-40% SOC through charge completion, the cooling fans are running Balls-To-The-Wall FULL Ready for Blast-Off speed. Here is the kicker, it's been about 15*F-45*F. Never have I had this level of cooling, even with a HOT 113*F battery when it's this cold outside. Even the AC compressor going full blast.
As I said, I wanted to test this out a couple of times and at different supercharger locations. Results seem to be about the same with slight variance at all locations.

Thinking, they are getting Sneaky, might have sent a change without actually upgrading the Firmware. And to take it a FINAL step, the Update Clock disappeared after supercharging last night. The last time I had the update clock, I had to cancel it for 6 months before it went away. This time 2 weeks. Took 2 1/2 hrs to get to ~85%.


Just sharing findings.

Regarding the fans and cooling etc. That was also a recent change. Previously (before chargegate) I would only hear the fans/AC compressor kick on when charing in 100ºF weather at high charge rates (90kw). Now every time (even in 45ºF-55ºF) I supercharge for more than an hour or so (20% - 80% SOC) the fans are on full blast and when I get in the car to drive away the AC compressor is super loud and you can feel the vibration through the entire car. The exhaust for the front two radiators in the wheel wells blow out very hot air.

Could it be possible that the batteries were not adequately cooled before when supercharging and now they are damaged?

 

[Ferrycraigs]

This?

Kind of. That deals with putting a 90 or 100 pack in, which I know is difficult. My question is really just establishing the viability of installing a capped 75 or 85 pack in a pre face lift car, ie does Tesla ACTUALLY have a solution for me rather than just uncapping which presumably does not solve the underlying problem.

 

[omarsultan]

I think the most cost-effective approach would be to keep the pack case and replace the modules. This could likely be done at the service center. It would take some time to cycle all the affected cars through, but I, for one, would be willing to deal with some delay.

 

[Droschke]

Ok with the most recent update my previously recovered range is gone again (March 2014 S85). My max charge seems to be around 247 when original was 265 and most recent recovery was 257ish. Also when max charging there is a constant electric buzzing/humming in the garage.

You are capped.

 

[islandbayy]

Regarding the fans and cooling etc. That was also a recent change. Previously (before chargegate) I would only hear the fans/AC compressor kick on when charing in 100ºF weather at high charge rates (90kw). Now every time (even in 45ºF-55ºF) I supercharge for more than an hour or so (20% - 80% SOC) the fans are on full blast and when I get in the car to drive away the AC compressor is super loud and you can feel the vibration through the entire car. The exhaust for the front two radiators in the wheel wells blow out very hot air.

Could it be possible that the batteries were not adequately cooled before when supercharging and now they are damaged?

Agreed. If they did do something, it's really crappy to not even do it with a firmware update. I'll be doing a LONG drive tonight to a location that has 3 NON Paired Superchargers. Even if it was 0*F outside, my pack would be about 100*F from driving by the time I reach it. My charge rates are usually pegged there at 94-95kW with my S, and 118ish on my 75DX.
I found it strange to get full fan speed even with such low charge rate. Will report back. My S cells are pretty balanced. So Doubt it's due to that. My MX75D on the other hand, has an brick of cells that is 50mV out of balance with the rest of the pack. Most likely cell level fuses have blown, but of course Tesla says it's fine...... Suppose I'll just wait until the MX shuts down above 0 Rated.

My Model S 90D is 90,000 miles, Jan 2016 build date.

 

[cpa]

Damascene moment

Full marks, Ferrycraigs, for this locution. (You even sent me scrambling to my 1958 Funk & Wagnalls!)

Don't the Scots use epiphany? Or is there a subtle difference between hither and yon?

Keep up your fine composition!

 

[Windbourne]

Today my car is at the Tilburg Service Center for resetting the generation 1 TPMS sensors. (This is not the assembly ‘factory’, but the SeC and Store location just around the corner.)
Of course they ask if there are any other concerns with the car. So I mention Battery and Charge Gate. To my surprise I didn’t get the boilerplate answer/denial. They owned up to the ill effects of the software interventions on my type of car. The message is that Tesla is still sorting out what to do with this group of cars. Apparently some resolution will be reached, but I was advised not to hold my breath...

[EDIT: typo]

BTW, you are having them upgrade the TPMS from Gen 1 to Gen 2. Right?
If not, I will say that it is worth it.

 

[PaulusdB]

BTW, you are having them upgrade the TPMS from Gen 1 to Gen 2. Right?
If not, I will say that it is worth it.

No, I wasn't and I don't want the generation 2 system, anyhow.

They inspected the TPMS sensors and found two of them to be defective, causing an permanent error.
Now that all four sensors are replaced by the local tyre shop, the error message has remained. Most likely another visit to the Service Center is due. I'm giving it a few more days, as I just installed an new firmware version (2019.36.2.7).

 

[joeinslw]

Tesla doesn't report the bad stuff including battery fires this software is causing, after all they have your money, and your complete attention.

 

[iRia]

It's odd that only 75kWh pack is listed as REMAN (re-manufactured) but 70 and 90 are not. Also, all being listed in the catalog does not necessarily mean available.

My 70 pack when it was replaced last year was listed as REMAN. It was $20,000 list price on the invoice.

 

[Chaserr]

Tesla doesn't report the bad stuff including battery fires this software is causing, after all they have your money, and your complete attention.

Well they have hopefully after last month's deadline. I don't think they are insane enough to lie or fail to comply wit hthe investigation when they demanded full disclosure of every change made by every update published over the last few years.

 

[Droschke]

My 70 pack when it was replaced last year was listed as REMAN. It was $20,000 list price on the invoice.

Isn't $20K for a remanufactured S70 pack too much?

 

[rowdy]

Here's the interesting part though. Since that firmware was queued, I have not been able to charge over 95-96% SOC! Next, with a warm battery, around 90*F, my maximum supercharger speed has been ~76 kWh. FURTHER, starting at about 30-40% SOC through charge completion, the cooling fans are running Balls-To-The-Wall FULL Ready for Blast-Off speed. Here is the kicker, it's been about 15*F-45*F. Never have I had this level of cooling, even with a HOT 113*F battery when it's this cold outside. Even the AC compressor going full blast.
As I said, I wanted to test this out a couple of times and at different supercharger locations. Results seem to be about the same with slight variance at all locations.

It sounds like one or both louvers on the front might be stuck/broken. Check and make sure they open when you start supercharging. Would be weird for this behaviour to start with no firmware update.

 

[FURY]

Regarding the fans and cooling etc. That was also a recent change. Previously (before chargegate) I would only hear the fans/AC compressor kick on when charing in 100ºF weather at high charge rates (90kw). Now every time (even in 45ºF-55ºF) I supercharge for more than an hour or so (20% - 80% SOC) the fans are on full blast and when I get in the car to drive away the AC compressor is super loud and you can feel the vibration through the entire car. The exhaust for the front two radiators in the wheel wells blow out very hot air.

Could it be possible that the batteries were not adequately cooled before when supercharging and now they are damaged?

I have a late 2014 build S85 and was in SO Cal until last october. I remember yhrough especially the first two years, the car shaking so much during supercharging that I moved away from the vehicle... All sorts of trepidation and only phone reassurances from tesla service in Costa Mesa, despite many, many calls. I had thebattery heater replaced last winter after many calls and a month in the SC to figure out why charging rate was soooo slow. Now these governor OS version is a bit unnerving. I wonder if the governor's algorithm varies the cap charge rate, based on battery health/illness. Someone more clever than I and with some of those diagnostic tools out there, might be able to figure this out, with some volunteers and a supercharger site. I am sure there have been safety cap rates, that have changed, for all sorts of reasons, but having compared reasonably like vehicles to mine,charging at superchargers, I never felt any reassurance from the phone responses for variances, that I received from Tesla SC.

Thank you very much

FURY

 

[sorka]

So a bit of good news sort of. The tech actually showed me the specific alert that came up and it explains why I don't have any symptoms related to battery hardware failures.

The error is actually BMS error 159 "WOT Cycles Exceeded". It's the WOT counter that triggered because I've gone over the limit.

The tech said that they've rarely seen this and the newer firmware simply ignores the count. In the past, this has been grounds for replacement but they've decided now that it's not an automatic replacement event.

He unstaged V10 and told me I was good to drive it with the error.

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

So a bit of good news sort of. The tech actually showed me the specific alert that came up and it explains why I don't have any symptoms related to battery hardware failures.

The error is actually BMS error 159 "WOT Cycles Exceeded". It's the WOT counter that triggered because I've gone over the limit.

The tech said that they've rarely seen this and the newer firmware simply ignores the count. In the past, this has been grounds for replacement but they've decided now that it's not an automatic replacement event.

He unstaged V10 and told me I was good to drive it with the error.

WOT = wide open throttle?? Wide open throttle - Wikipedia or am I missing something? You're saying there is a error for putting the "pedal to the metal" too much??