Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[yobigd20]

Charging last night.
The cliff was an M3 pulling in next to me.

View attachment 489215

and some people still think that the full rate of supercharging goes to the one who plugged in first...

 

[Keshk]

This seems to be a standard Template reply. I have seen this almost word for word elsewhere. I have had several similar instances. For the past 6 months I have had 2 months worth of emails (40) back and forward, and submitted 2 Formal Written Grievances. I must have explained on about 10 separate occasions that my complaint was Battery Capping, not Loss of Range. I can’t count the number of times they have ignored that and rejected my complaint on the basis of Loss of Range is not covered under the Warranty. They appear to wilfully ignore my emails saying I agree Loss of Range is not covered, despite me repeating the issue is Capping. They can’t defend capping so ALWAYS reply Loss of Range is not covered. I also get repeated replies with the 'for the longevity of the battery' or 'a small percentage of owners...' or 'we are working on mitigating the effect' rubbish. They are not interested in engaging in any form of dialogue or discussion. Probably because their position is indefensible. They have shown a determination to simply say NO, No fault found, go away.

Charging last night.
The cliff was an M3 pulling in next to me.

View attachment 489215

Charging last night.
The cliff was an M3 pulling in next to me.

View attachment 489215

Nice graph DJ. Other than the charge voltage is just shade below 4V, what conclusions one can draw from the graph?

 

[Keshk]

And here's where many of us will diverge. I **LOVE** that an entrepreneur-driven, innovation-centered AMERICAN company set the automotive world in a panic trying to chase us down (and failing). It's salve to my soul to have a gleaming Tesla in my garage after spending my childhood loathing American cars and everything about them... with only dreams of German metal in my garage being acceptable.

They changed the landscape.

BUT.

They did it by promising to stand by those of us who bought into the dream when it was still tenuous vapor, effectively pledging to always do right by us... and if they don't, then break that sucker up and toss it on the trash heap of capitalism. You're Betamax, not VHS. Doesn't matter to me if warranty claims/recall sink the company-- you live up to your promises and obligations or you are dead to me either way. I will love my Model S to its grave (and I truly adore it), but it will be the last Tesla I buy because I follow my principles even if the company does not.

Those bemoaning "the mission" over loyalty to the customer are missing the greater point: You can't "save the world" by cheating your way to the top. You can't be the catalyst of a hopeful future by being the thief of today, ignoring legitimate complaints. That's not how inspirational leadership works, by being tone deaf to your loyalists. The mission will go on with or without Tesla, or Tesla will go on without its loyalists... but it won't last long. Word will get out.

"The mission" will fail if Tesla doesn't fix this or die trying.

Well said Newscutter. The problem is Tesla is hiding the scale, size, and nature of the problem. If the affected population is "vey small", then it will not affect Tesla, only those loyal minority individuals, like me and you.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

and some people still think that the full rate of supercharging goes to the one who plugged in first...

I thought the new car gets a minimum of one brick, ie 30 kWs.

 

[Gr8pursuit]

Just got my obd cable and MX+ for Scan My Tesla app. What data will be I looking for to confirm my battery was capped and not degraded. Although I know it was capped cause I lost around 23 miles of rated range charge at 100% all of a sudden.

 

[DJRas]

Nothing was sure in the first year or two. Discussion definitely included potential range losses from 1% to 5% per year. Remember at that time there pretty much weren't any Superchargers to have any impact on charging speed and capacity. First hopes were maybe 5% in year one and leveling off to optimistically 2%/year after, but with some fear of going off a cliff at some point 5+ years out like phone batteries do. Tesla reassured that the BMS wouldn't allow the batteries to deteriorate as fatally as phone and other consumer lithium batteries managed, and pointed to their "best warranty" based on that confidence. I certainly did the math with 5% as as my worst case downside risk, short of Tesla going out of business which seemed even more likely then than early battery failure. The power-train issues were a bigger concern back then, leading to Elon enhancing that warranty too. I think just about everyone was pleased then at how Tesla stepped up and handled warranty repairs. Sadly it looks like those days are long gone, but I'd truly love to a semblance return if their frantic scaling up ever stabilizes.

I do not remember EVER hearing 5% annual degradation as a possibility.
Losing 40% range in 8 years makes the car the usefulness of any short range EV at 3x-5x the cost and 3x-5x replacement battery cost.
I waited and followed the actual data gathered from actual users and noted the 5% first year and 1-2% every year thereafter (as shown in @Droschke post above. That Tesla manipulated the rated range value during that time, thus manipulating the expectations.
The other vast selling points were the 8 year unlimited mile warranty on the battery and the Supercharger network that allowed charging (for free for life) at high charging speed (30 minutes to 80%).
They also promised that replacement battery prices would drop ($100/kW = $10k for 100kW pack).

Now, we see all the (overly) optimistic promises provided by Tesla are vaporizing before our eyes.
Battery warranties are being evaded.
Supercharging network is slowed and nearly unusable for many.
No reduced cost for replacement batteries (still $20k quoted prices).

All while still hearing Tesla tout the Million Mile Battery, 250 kW Supercharging, 0-60 times at <3 seconds.

<SIGH!!!>

 

[lightningltd]

Since the tweet to Elon got no response....




Bill Martin @Bill_ITdirector 4s

When are you going to fix what was broken in 2019.16 Firmware @Tesla?
Batteries capped by 15-16% and Charge Rates down by over 50% on the affected cars.
We have been waiting since June for a solution and an answer!

Just tweeted.

 

[DJRas]

Nice graph DJ. Other than the charge voltage is just shade below 4V, what conclusions one can draw from the graph?

This just further illustrates the effects of "Charge-Gate".
Slower and slower charging speeds.
Estimated 50 minutes when plugged in and 1 hour plus to actually complete (from the table above the graph).

 

[Kim.T]

My '15 70D has the dotted line until the battery get approx. 16 C, but at that time the regen is still only 50% = 42kW. First when the batteri is approx 21C I have full regen. The highest regen I have seen is 87,5kW
Yesterday I got 2019.40.2.1, and this morning is saw that the dotted line first disappeared at 18,8C - hav they changed anything in this FW ?
(I use SMT)

Just to bring up my previous post again regarding the limited regen.
So yes. The temp. curve for regen has been raised by approx 3C.
And another observation: Low SoC = Low regen. High SoC = High regen. Opposite of charging speed.

A example of the regen/avg. cell temp. can bee seen here (data collected from a beta version of ScanMyTesla to a beta version of TeslaLogger. I don't now what model of S (battery), or version of FW : https://tff-forum.de/download/file.php?id=62443&mode=view

 

[Curious George]

Since the tweet to Elon got no response....




Bill Martin @Bill_ITdirector 4s

When are you going to fix what was broken in 2019.16 Firmware @Tesla?
Batteries capped by 15-16% and Charge Rates down by over 50% on the affected cars.
We have been waiting since June for a solution and an answer!

Just tweeted.

It is almost 6 months thiis thread started, So what are the next steps?
Is the class action proceeding and is there any time frame when it will go to trial? Is it waiting for NHTSA findings/ruling?
There was a deadline for NHTSA inforequest last month. But I imagine, Tesla can delay the response with various excuses.

Looking at the recent pedo guy jury trial, I won't be surprised if Tesla hires the best lawyers with big payouts to find some loophole to exonerate itself. NHTSA also seems like a toothless animal. It seems hard to win against large corps. They have big money power. Also, there are only couple of thousands of affected cars, as I understand. If it was hundreds of thousands, it may be little different outcome.

 

[Keshk]

It is almost 6 months thiis thread started, So what are the next steps?
Is the class action proceeding and is there any time frame when it will go to trial? Is it waiting for NHTSA findings/ruling?
There was a deadline for NHTSA inforequest last month. But I imagine, Tesla can delay the response with various excuses.

Looking at the recent pedo guy jury trial, I won't be surprised if Tesla hires the best lawyers with big payouts to find some loophole to exonerate itself. NHTSA also seems like a toothless animal. It seems hard to win against large corps. They have big money power. Also, there are only couple of thousands of affected cars, as I understand. If it was hundreds of thousands, it may be little different outcome.

From where you understand or you got this number of 2000

 

[Chaserr]

Some random blog (Electrek I think) claimed 2000 cars were impacted back when Tesla was acknowledging this issue. It was never a verified number or from a reputable source.

 

[lightningltd]

Ok. Time for the next step.
Perhaps it is time for a twitter storm.
If you have twitter, please retweet my post and the one I re-tweeted from another who is affected. Re-tweet any tweets on this issue that have been ignored in the past. If we all do it, it will HAVE to get noticed. We CANNOT let them ignore us. Others who see it will DEMAND answers from Tesla.

EDIT: I found some that others have posted in the past and retweeted them. They are on my page.

 

[KidDoc]

Ok. Time for the next step.
Perhaps it is time for a twitter storm.
If you have twitter, please retweet my post and the one I re-tweeted from another who is affected. Re-tweet any tweets on this issue that have been ignored in the past. If we all do it, it will HAVE to get noticed. We CANNOT let them ignore us. Others who see it will DEMAND answers from Tesla.

Ug I guess I have to actually make a Twitter account, I've been avoiding it for years.

 

[Sharkdiver76]

So I just found this post, and don't have time to read all 433 pages. Is the main issue capped capacity and slowdown of SC speeds? I got my battery replaced one year ago, it is a 85kw pack and haven't noticed a big loss of range(however haven't gone on any long trips or done full charge). Have only supercharged 2x since then and both times were with an urban charger and only got 37/38kw each time. Are they throttling back speeds based on battery or car history? I used to use evgo quick chargers frequently before getting a charger installed in new house about the same time as new battery, so new battery only has 2 SC uses at restricted speeds. I have a trip planned next month, should I expect slower speeds as well.

Can I take this issue up with Tesla? can someone please give me a cliffnotes version of this thread.

 

[islandbayy]

So I just found this post, and don't have time to read all 433 pages. Is the main issue capped capacity and slowdown of SC speeds? I got my battery replaced one year ago, it is a 85kw pack and haven't noticed a big loss of range(however haven't gone on any long trips or done full charge). Have only supercharged 2x since then and both times were with an urban charger and only got 37/38kw each time. Are they throttling back speeds based on battery or car history? I used to use evgo quick chargers frequently before getting a charger installed in new house about the same time as new battery, so new battery only has 2 SC uses at restricted speeds. I have a trip planned next month, should I expect slower speeds as well.

Can I take this issue up with Tesla? can someone please give me a cliffnotes version of this thread.

Read the first post in the thread. It's being updated as the thread progresses.

 

[Sharkdiver76]

I read first post, mostly informing about capping issues. I don't think my car is affected with that, however I am concerned about charging.

 

[Chaserr]

This thread is mostly about capped power and capacity. Nearly every early Tesla has been charge rate capped

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I read first post, mostly informing about capping issues. I don't think my car is affected with that, however I am concerned about charging.

There is a new, separate thread on reduction of charging speeds. It’s very new so does not have much info yet.
Did They Cap my Charge?

 

[Sharkdiver76]

Thanks, I guess i have been out of the loop. I see mention of NHTSB investigation or class action is this being perused? I bought this car for mainly long distance travel, haven't done too much lately with 2 little kids, however we are planning several trips coming up and won't be happy if it takes 2x as long to charge as planned.