Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[HostileHarry]

Answer, no. There is also the problem that the car only registers DC charge total. It doesn’t differentiate between High Powered DC (120 kW Supercharging) and Low Powered Rapid DC (50 kW Chademo). My DC:AC mix is 20K:3K, which obviously looks bad. But my 20K DC is actually 13K Supercharge:7K Rapid DC, so around 50% of my DC charging is Low Powered DC. But I’m still chargegated. So they may just be using total DC figures.

It's too bad that you even have to state 'obviously looks bad'... That is total BS. You're using the car as sold and you shouldn't have to apologize.

I asked the question as I finally got SMT hooked up for my 3 and X and my X has some decent DC charging on the 44k miles as it's the family road trip car (it's a "90" battery). I've been following this all closely as I find it really interesting to watch what you all are going through as it very well could be an indication to what could happen to the fleet. Not to mention, watching Tesla for years, and them wanting to be the "un"car manufacturer (stealing t mobile's 'uncarrier' concept here), it's so disappointing to see how they are responding, and how this will all play out with OTA updates that can degrade so many aspects without acceptance.

 

[lightningltd]

Installed 2019.40.2.3 this morning.
Just finished charging.
Set it to charge to 100% but it only got to 98.3%
Cell avg is 4.176
That's pretty close to what it was a month ago, but certainly less. A month ago I got to 4.192v and fully to 100%.
I know this is about voltage capping, and that range isn't the talking point here, but...
100% range when new (2015 P85D) was 253 miles.
My 100% range when I purchased in May was 239 miles - 5.86% loss.
Just now at 98% it's 231 miles - 9.33% loss.

I'm hoping to be wrong, but expect that it's going to continue to get a little worse and a little worse.
Someone recently put it perfectly, a death by 1,000 cuts.
View attachment 490436

What app is that?

 

[Geek190]

Scan My Tesla

I did a screen shot of a custom page

 

[Droschke]

...I'm hoping to be wrong, but expect that it's going to continue to get a little worse and a little worse.

That's what I've been thinking as well.

 

[swegman]

I have a 2013 P85 (classic car; pre-AP1) and received 2019.40.2.3 over LTE a few day’s ago. I’m still driving on 2019.32.12.8. I’ve received 4 different updates over LTE in the past month but refuse to install them out of fear of what Tesla will do to my car next.

My car was subjected to a forced update without my knowledge or consent to 2019.16.2 back in August (cane out to car and found a notice on the touchscreen that the firmware had been updated), at which point I immediately lost 31 miles of range. My current 89% SOC is 206/207 miles and my current 100% (actually 97/98%) SOC is 226 miles. My pre-forced update range at 100% SOC used to be 257 miles.

 

[Gixx1300R]

I have a 2013 P85 (classic car; pre-AP1) and received 2019.40.2.3 over LTE a few day’s ago. I’m still driving on 2019.32.12.8. I’ve received 4 different updates over LTE in the past month but refuse to install them out of fear of what Tesla will do to my car next.

My car was subjected to a forced update without my knowledge or consent to 2019.16.2 back in August (cane out to car and found a notice on the touchscreen that the firmware had been updated), at which point I immediately lost 31 miles of range. My current 89% SOC is 206/207 miles and my current 100% (actually 97/98%) SOC is 226 miles. My pre-forced update range at 100% SOC used to be 257 miles.

Exactly the same numbers for me. I have a 2013 pre AP1, I lost 32 miles of range and my current SOC at 90% is 208 miles.

 

[xbox4me62]

It looks like Tesla is catching on to people spamming them with service request for range or charge issues. I made a service appointment for the charge rate problem on my vehicle. The technician then sent the boiler plate plate text saying he will perform a remote diagnostic (Who knows if they even do anything). Of course he says the battery is in fantastic condition and there are no issues and if I want to bring in the vehicle for additional diagnostics it would be a $195 fee. I then proceed to ask why there is a fee to diagnose a problem for a vehicle that is under warranty and that I would like to have my vehicle brought in for other issues that they have not fixed time and time again. I also asked what my ideal super charging rate should be. But every question I asked his only response was literally copy and paste thing the previous text saying the additional service he would be $195 effectively stonewalling us from bringing the vehicle in for any kind of service. After the fifth time saying the same thing over and over again he just said “I will be canceling your service appointment for now thank you and have a good day”

 

[Ferrycraigs]

It's too bad that you even have to state 'obviously looks bad'... That is total BS. You're using the car as sold and you shouldn't have to apologize.

I asked the question as I finally got SMT hooked up for my 3 and X and my X has some decent DC charging on the 44k miles as it's the family road trip car (it's a "90" battery). I've been following this all closely as I find it really interesting to watch what you all are going through as it very well could be an indication to what could happen to the fleet. Not to mention, watching Tesla for years, and them wanting to be the "un"car manufacturer (stealing t mobile's 'uncarrier' concept here), it's so disappointing to see how they are responding, and how this will all play out with OTA updates that can degrade so many aspects without acceptance.

Spot on the money.

 

[Droschke]

Correct. It looks like all AP1 cars are getting it, capped or uncapped.

I've too, waiting for install. Battery-gated, charge-gated and regen-gated. Hope they don't mess up with my brakes next.

 

[BigNick]

Due to the way my SoC went up while not charging, I initially thought something evil was in 2019.40.2.3.

Here is a link to my observations and speculations about what it is doing.
AP1 ONLY Please -- life after 2018.50.6

 

[Kim.T]

Has any of you seen the battery preheat icon in the app ?
I have not seen it yet this winter. Is there also a preheat-gate ???
I have a screen shot from feb. '18 where I can see the temp i 6C and the icon is on.

 

[Droschke]

It looks like Tesla is catching on to people spamming them with service request for range or charge issues. I made a service appointment for the charge rate problem on my vehicle. The technician then sent the boiler plate plate text saying he will perform a remote diagnostic (Who knows if they even do anything). Of course he says the battery is in fantastic condition and there are no issues and if I want to bring in the vehicle for additional diagnostics it would be a $195 fee. I then proceed to ask why there is a fee to diagnose a problem for a vehicle that is under warranty and that I would like to have my vehicle brought in for other issues that they have not fixed time and time again. I also asked what my ideal super charging rate should be. But every question I asked his only response was literally copy and paste thing the previous text saying the additional service he would be $195 effectively stonewalling us from bringing the vehicle in for any kind of service. After the fifth time saying the same thing over and over again he just said “I will be canceling your service appointment for now thank you and have a good day”

Reminds me how Musk himself handles the customer support issues:

 

[Droschke]

Has any of you seen the battery preheat icon in the app ?
I have not seen it yet this winter. Is there also a preheat-gate ???
I have a screen shot from feb. '18 where I can see the temp i 6C and the icon is on.

I asked the same question just yesterday in this thread and @tga answered it. You need to read back.

 

[Geek190]

So, I'm not sure if I'm capped or not.
My voltage yesterday was 4.176, below the 4.18 threshold mentioned on page 1, but it also stopped charging at 98%.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that they won't let it charge to 100% so that I can't make a claim about full charge voltage.

 

[Droschke]

So, I'm not sure if I'm capped or not.
My voltage yesterday was 4.176, below the 4.18 threshold mentioned on page 1, but it also stopped charging at 98%.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that they won't let it charge to 100% so that I can't make a claim about full charge voltage.

Previously, you said:

100% range when new (2015 P85D) was 253 miles.
My 100% range when I purchased in May was 239 miles - 5.86% loss.
Just now at 98% it's 231 miles - 9.33% loss.

Not capped to the degree others have been. Might get gradually capped going forward. Need to keep monitoring it.

 

[Lukez]

So, I'm not sure if I'm capped or not.
My voltage yesterday was 4.176, below the 4.18 threshold mentioned on page 1, but it also stopped charging at 98%.

The conspiracy theorist in me says that they won't let it charge to 100% so that I can't make a claim about full charge voltage.

You are not capped, your voltage max would be much lower, most report a max of 4.1 volts. But it's possible you're at the beginning of capping, you just need to keep monitoring to know.

I know a lot of people here are freaking out thinking they were screwed by not being able to charge to 100% but I have to point out for those in colder climates....it is normal to not be able to hit 100% in the winter. I went on a 3 month road trip in the winter last year (before all these software changes) and when I was in freezing temps I could not get to 100%. Depending how cold it was it would stop at 96% in single digit temps. 98% in near freezeing temps was normal. This was on 6kw chargers. When we went to arizona for a couple weeks to warm up on the same trip, I hit 100% again no problem on 6kw chargers in 70 F.

One time I do recall staying at a hotel with a supercharger and it was 0 degrees F out. In the morning I plugged in a couple hours before departure to warm up the car and charge up as much as I could. I believe I got to 99% and it was still charging, so 100% might still be possible in the winter on a supercharger from my recollection if you are willing to wait a long time.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I've too, waiting for install. Battery-gated, charge-gated and regen-gated. Hope they don't mess up with my brakes next.

It won’t matter. With all the other X-gate stuff, you are unlikely to be driving anyway. (Ho ho ho Merry Christmas)

 

[KidDoc]

Ok this was my recent road trip to Katy & back which wasn't a problem with max charge. From my napkin math if 52.7 KW used results in 18% capacity remaining that means I have roughly 62.18 KW storage available in my 85 kw battery correct? So roughly 28% loss?

And yes I know that even new the 85 batteries only let us burn 75ish KW so that would be 18% loss- prior to this software capping I was around 4-5% loss over 5 years.

 

[Chaserr]

Hope they don't mess up with my brakes next.

That was possibly a recall they successfully avoided with an update like the batterygate recall was supposed to be. For years I had this weird issue where my brakes would lose pressure and the pedal would go all the way to the floor at random (but always at the very start of a drive). I slid through the first intersection by my house a few times but no accidents. Tesla always told me I was imagining things and to use the correct pedal, but I read about it here on TMC so it must have been a real issue. The corrected it eventually, I haven't lost brake pressure in at least a year and thinking back now I bet they hid the fix in an unlabeled update. I wonder if that will turn up in the NHTSA's investigation update notes?

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Ok this was my recent road trip to Katy & back which wasn't a problem with max charge. From my napkin math if 52.7 KW used results in 18% capacity remaining that means I have roughly 62.18 KW storage available in my 85 kw battery correct? So roughly 28% loss?

And yes I know that even new the 85 batteries only let us burn 75ish KW so that would be 18% loss- prior to this software capping I was around 4-5% loss over 5 years.

I have ALWAYS found using kWhs used to establish capacity is fraught with problems. So many other things interfere with the numbers. And occasionally it results in figures like 28% loss, which can stop you sleeping!

The formula in the WiKi on Page 1 is a pretty easy and accurate way to establish the car’s capacity. Of course it doesn’t prove capping, only suggests when further investigation might be required. And it does include the 4kWh buffer. Your 85 battery would have started at 81.5 kWh total (including buffer).