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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Neither the samples taken nor the CAN bus data is coming in at the exact same time from all bricks. Under load you are getting data that's doesn't represent the accurate voltage difference. Even under constant load there is noise on the data. To get a meaningful reading about balance you can't have any load on the battery.
It will take a YouTube or other celebrity to talk about the issue for Tesla to do something.
Ferrycraigs
Member
Car magazines, or programs, do a lot of car reviews. They pick a car up from a manufacturer for a couple of hours, sometimes a couple of days. Drive it around then write their review, then hand back the car before starting the process on a different car. Sometimes they decide to keep the car for longer, a long term car. They keep it for 6 months or a year, or for x amount of miles, ie 40,000 miles. The review is then no longer a 'first impressions' review, it is a 'what it’s like to own and live with, day in day out, for 6 months (or whatever the period is). They are generally seen as a more accurate assessment of the car's qualities and foibles. Not something they do often as instead of borrowing the car from the manufacturer, they have to buy it then sell it (or lease it) at the end of the review period.
Whomever is able to update the primary thread needs to be aware that there is a small error. It says
"There have been no reports of any cars with 90 kWh, or 100 kWh being affected."
But I can confirm that my 2016 pre facelift 90 RWD was impacted by #batterygate subsequent to the software update in May 2019.
Normal degradation at that point had been around 3.5% - post S/W update it was around 9% but has since settled at 7.5% (237 Vs 256 miles when new). Based on typical range shown.
I realise this is far less of an issue than those with smaller batteries, but I am impacted none the less.
If it helps I can also mention that my charging profile has altered also when Supercharging. It used to show 118kW when at low SOC%, Now it never exceeds 96kW though it does stay in the 90s for longer than before.
"There have been no reports of any cars with 90 kWh, or 100 kWh being affected."
But I can confirm that my 2016 pre facelift 90 RWD was impacted by #batterygate subsequent to the software update in May 2019.
Normal degradation at that point had been around 3.5% - post S/W update it was around 9% but has since settled at 7.5% (237 Vs 256 miles when new). Based on typical range shown.
I realise this is far less of an issue than those with smaller batteries, but I am impacted none the less.
If it helps I can also mention that my charging profile has altered also when Supercharging. It used to show 118kW when at low SOC%, Now it never exceeds 96kW though it does stay in the 90s for longer than before.
Think your supercharger capping is normal due to amount of usage for 90-packs. They typically reduce to 9x kW but stay there longer. 85-pack capping is reduced along most of the SOC-scale. Not the samme issue it would appear.
As for range reduction, what is your vmax? Only way to be sure if capping has occured is to confirm vmax <4,1v. Fluctuations in range display can indicate it for sure, but altso it can be BMS adjusting itself to be more accurate. Early 90-packs often had severe degradation and only 3,5% sounds almost to good to be true. So it could be BMS adjusted to a more correct estimate.
As for range reduction, what is your vmax? Only way to be sure if capping has occured is to confirm vmax <4,1v. Fluctuations in range display can indicate it for sure, but altso it can be BMS adjusting itself to be more accurate. Early 90-packs often had severe degradation and only 3,5% sounds almost to good to be true. So it could be BMS adjusted to a more correct estimate.
.....and it's all kicking off from the apologist deniers over here:
I am posting this in every youtube Tesla topic I come across: Range loss, charge gate etc
I am posting this in every youtube Tesla topic I come across: Range loss, charge gate etc
This guy has not updated for a while on an 85kwh pack and has not been reduced, just a bit more evidence to show that it is indeed the update....
"
sorka, Today at 6:21 AM
2015 P85DL with 106k miles @ 100% is 240 down... from 253 when new.
Capacity is 74.3 kwh.
Still running V8.
Model P(85)81DL+"
"
sorka, Today at 6:21 AM
2015 P85DL with 106k miles @ 100% is 240 down... from 253 when new.
Capacity is 74.3 kwh.
Still running V8.
Model P(85)81DL+"
I know you may be convinced but only way to confirm is get the max voltage reading at 100%. If it's close to 4.2v you are not capped.
What you need to do that is:
Scan My Tesla Info and it's capabilities: scan my tesla
Cable, pick your correct year: Tesla CAN Diagnostic Cable (Sept 2015 and up) – Crimped OBD-II – Maxwell Automotive Technologies
OBD tool: https://www.amazon.com/ScanTool-OBDLink-Bluetooth-Professional-Diagnostics/dp/B00H9S71LW
I suspect there will be no outrage. I think Tesla has learned a lot and is learning a lot from your second generation of batteries. While I thank you guys for being early adopters, my sense is that you guys haven’t embraced what that means. Sorry your battery isn’t perfect. Model 3 batteries won’t be either, but they will be closer.
So you are ok with someone selling you something then taking it away without your permission
I totally agree with @Lukez's advice (post#9249), especially since you have a 90 pack (different chemical mix) and your drop being small in comparison. Furthermore, I don't even see you on the tracker spreadsheet (link included in post#1) if you are indeed batterygate impacted. I personally do not think you are being voltage capped.
Can your "sense" guide you to "embrace" what's being conveyed by the meaning of the topic of this thread?
And this the logic loop is back around. What exactly did they promise you?
A warranty against defective product
Ferrycraigs
Member
Well they promised me, if I paid them some money, they would sell me a car. They promised me if I paid more, I would get a car with a larger battery. Specifically, for an agreed increase I would get a car with a 70 kWh battery. They didn’t promise me I would get X Range, and I have never said they did. So I paid more and I got a car with a 70 kWh battery in it. Happy days. And things were absolutely fine for 55,000 miles. Then, without asking me, or letting me know they were going to do so, they changed my 70 kWh battery to a 60 kWh battery. Then they denied doing so and continue to refuse to return my battery back into the size I originally paid for. Your comments demonstrate a spectacular mis-appreciation of the issue. I really don’t think the issue is an early adopter, suck it up issue. As early adopters we have indeed had to put up with many teething problems. And I agree that means sometimes having to suffer whilst they sort something out. That is not what is happening here. There does not appear to be any sorting out whatsoever. If there were, we probably wouldn’t have this thread.
The logic loop I struggle with is who owns the car. I thought I did. It appears Tesla think they still do.
It is "cold" here i.e 32F (0C) and I noticed something new:
I parked my car outside last night with 20mi left (was much warmer) and this morning I see 11mi or range and the snowflake icon
Anyhow now Tesla reduces you rated range seemingly by the amount of range (or energy) that would be taken off to warm battery....I think this is a SMART feature.
See attached (after I reach SC 2 miles away) ....3mi of range BUT 5 percent of SOC (when I switch to %)...obviously that now includes the blue region on the graph.
Took awhile (7minutes) to get it to put any KW into battery ...after 60 minutes only charged to 55% and that estimated 70 minutes is now 115 minutes
I parked my car outside last night with 20mi left (was much warmer) and this morning I see 11mi or range and the snowflake icon
Anyhow now Tesla reduces you rated range seemingly by the amount of range (or energy) that would be taken off to warm battery....I think this is a SMART feature.
See attached (after I reach SC 2 miles away) ....3mi of range BUT 5 percent of SOC (when I switch to %)...obviously that now includes the blue region on the graph.
Took awhile (7minutes) to get it to put any KW into battery ...after 60 minutes only charged to 55% and that estimated 70 minutes is now 115 minutes
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This was a blog post and it was not regarding range loss or general battery defects. It was specifically regarding bricking the battery by specifically not charging it. That's it. You left out the context and made it look like this was a general statement. It was not.
For a guide on how Tesla views range loss, please reference the text of your battery warranty. That is the only document that is legally binding here.
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