Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Matt L]

Well they promised me, if I paid them some money, they would sell me a car. They promised me if I paid more, I would get a car with a larger battery. Specifically, for an agreed increase I would get a car with a 70 kWh battery. They didn’t promise me I would get X Range, and I have never said they did. So I paid more and I got a car with a 70 kWh battery in it. Happy days. And things were absolutely fine for 55,000 miles. Then, without asking me, or letting me know they were going to do so, they changed my 70 kWh battery to a 60 kWh battery. Then they denied doing so and continue to refuse to return my battery back into the size I originally paid for. Your comments demonstrate a spectacular mis-appreciation of the issue. I really don’t think the issue is an early adopter, suck it up issue. As early adopters we have indeed had to put up with many teething problems. And I agree that means sometimes having to suffer whilst they sort something out. That is not what is happening here. There does not appear to be any sorting out whatsoever. If there were, we probably wouldn’t have this thread.

The logic loop I struggle with is who owns the car. I thought I did. It appears Tesla think they still do.

Great reply. I don’t disagree with any of that and wish they would communicate with you guys on the ‘why’. I’m not sure that would make anyone less angry though.

My largest issue is with the OP running around and jamming this video everywhere. He would do the exact same thing if his battery failed and Tesla didn’t take steps to prevent it.

 

[omarsultan]

This was a blog post and it was not regarding range loss or general battery defects. It was specifically regarding bricking the battery by specifically not charging it. That's it. You left out the context and made it look like this was a general statement. It was not.

For a guide on how Tesla views range loss, please reference the text of your battery warranty. That is the only document that is legally binding here.

I think that is an overly tight interpretation of the blog post, which, as a whole is called Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program

we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours.

Sure this is referring to "if you are not smart enough to plug your car in for 6 months", but, since its the BMS doing the protecting, I don't think its unreasonable to also extend this to "if we screwed up in programming a charging strategy into the BMS" as well...

I see no exclusions to this beyond the ones stated (emphasis added):

Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional abuse...all damage is covered by warranty, including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on end.

Finally, there is the closing to the section of the blog:

The intent is to provide complete peace of mind about owning your Model S even if you never read or followed the instructions in the manual.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Great reply. I don’t disagree with any of that and wish they would communicate with you guys on the ‘why’. I’m not sure that would make anyone less angry though.

My largest issue is with the OP running around and jamming this video everywhere. He would do the exact same thing if his battery failed and Tesla didn’t take steps to prevent it.

I suspect that due to Tesla not saying anything, then denying there was a problem, then misinforming us (‘your battery is perfectly healthy’), then being either condescending or just ignoring us, it has caused many owners to adopt a pretty polarised position. I include myself in that category. I am always happy to discuss or debate any issue, and to try and persuade reasonably by argument. When someone is denied even the opportunity to debate it, there is an overwhelming sense of impotence and frustration. That’s when people feel compelled to resort to less traditional avenues, such as posting videos wherever they can. Over the past 6 months there is a strong sense that Tesla are not going to budge unless compelled to by courts, or are embarrassed into doing so, or the pain from loss of sales begins to have an effect. It is very sad that we have had to resort to such tactics. But if they wont even talk about it how else are we meant to respond?

 

[Matt L]

It appears you have taken it upon yourself to try to minimize the poor experience of others by describing their actions as "crapflooding". Since this doesn't affect you why are you putting your nose in other people's business? I certainly hope that the issue isn't repeated on the model 3 but we don't know that yet and wont know for certain for at least a few years. The reality is these early adopters, as you described them, have been wronged and lied to. If this behavior is swept under the rug and ignored it will be repeated to avoid paying for recalls and battery warranty expense on again in the future. These early adopters are trying to spread the message of what has happened to them so that Tesla will do what's right. You will owe them a thank you if they are successful and you also need your battery replaced under warranty in the future. If they are not then enjoy your car as much as you can for the next few years because if there is a problem with your battery don't expect the warranty to be honored.

That could in fact be. They decided to give me 15 more miles of range. I didn’t complain either that they messed with my car. They’ve also added a bunch of other features that I haven’t paid for...I didn’t complain about those either. Now if they do something that makes me feel like they took away something promised...I’ll get my crack at YouTube I guess.

again, I didn’t seek this thread out but the OP invited the majority of the internet to come weigh in, so I did.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I think that is an overly tight interpretation of the blog post, which, as a whole is called Creating the World’s Best Service and Warranty Program


Sure this is referring to "if you are not smart enough to plug your car in for 6 months", but, since its the BMS doing the protecting, I don't think its unreasonable to also extend this to "if we screwed up in programming a charging strategy into the BMS" as well...

I see no exclusions to this beyond the ones stated (emphasis added):


Finally, there is the closing to the section of the blog:

I agree the quote refers to protection from bricking. But anyone that has had any dealings with the law will know that if you mean something to be qualified to a specific circumstance, it NEEDS to be stated, specifically. The fact is they have, in print, simply stated in the Warranty “If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault not yours”. And that “all damage is covered by Warranty”. I would be extremely surprised if any court viewed those statements as not being binding on Tesla.

 

[Droschke]

They’ve also added a bunch of other features that I haven’t paid for...

This is off topic, but, yes, you did pay for them. Adding the ongoing OTA "features" is an attractive part of Tesla's model in selling their cars.

I didn’t seek this thread out but the OP invited the majority of the internet to come weigh in, so I did.

Looks like he did not invite you to come to this thread to insult and accuse. If you are here, please have an open mind and read the Post#1, all of it, before commenting the way you have. It will help.

 

[Az_Rael]

They decided to give me 15 more miles of range. I didn’t complain either that they messed with my car.

Tesla gave me those extra miles too (assuming you own a LR Model 3). Then they took them back away later after a software update. That was unfortunate, and I am a little salty about it. Sure I still have the 310 miles the LR RWD was originally sold to me with, but I do wish they hadn’t given me 325 miles for a couple months then took it back away. Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth that they did mess with my car in the first place.

 

[Matt L]

Tesla gave me those extra miles too (assuming you own a LR Model 3). Then they took them back away later after a software update. That was unfortunate, and I am a little salty about it. Sure I still have the 310 miles the LR RWD was originally sold to me with, but I do wish they hadn’t given me 325 miles for a couple months then took it back away. Kinda left a bad taste in my mouth that they did mess with my car in the first place.

I still have mine. Well about 318 or so. Are you close to YouTube upset?

 

[David99]

It is "cold" here i.e 32F (0C) and I noticed something new:
I parked my car outside last night with 20mi left (was much warmer) and this morning I see 11mi or range and the snowflake icon
Anyhow now Tesla reduces you rated range seemingly by the amount of range (or energy) that would be taken off to warm battery....I think this is a SMART feature.

See attached (after I reach SC 2 miles away) ....3mi of range BUT 5 percent of SOC (when I switch to %)...obviously that now includes the blue region on the graph.

Took awhile (7minutes) to get it to put any KW into battery ...after 60 minutes only charged to 55% and that estimated 70 minutes is now 115 minutes

The snowflake and reduced range display (blue) has been a feature for 2 or 3 years now.

Tesla did lot of changes to cold battery behavior recently, though.
Regen has been reduced for cold batteries.
Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Delayed charging when the battery is cold. I think that is what you were seeing.
Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

 

[Az_Rael]

I still have mine. Well about 318 or so. Are you close to YouTube upset?

No, but if my P85D suddenly became an S60 overnight, I would be YouTube upset. So far we have been unaffected by the capping issue (unknown on chargegate as we don’t supercharge often, although the last time we did it maxed at 38kW, which sucked). But I get folks who are mad enough to want to run a social media campaign to get some response from Tesla.

 

[sorka]

And this the logic loop is back around. What exactly did they promise you?

Exactly what I have now with v8 that I'd lose if I updated to v10. I'll cut you some slack for not having read all 9000+ posts

 

[First EV]

I still have mine. Well about 318 or so. Are you close to YouTube upset?

So its ok and everyone should be quiet about it as long as it doesn't affect you personally?

 

[Battpower]

Do you honesty believe Tesla will restore your supercharging speed and original Vmax, after your warranty expires?

If not, then this can't simply be about warranty costs

But they couldn't do that without totally proving their motives & to some extent what the actual issue was that they were trying to duck.

 

[Keshk]

Car magazines, or programs, do a lot of car reviews. They pick a car up from a manufacturer for a couple of hours, sometimes a couple of days. Drive it around then write their review, then hand back the car before starting the process on a different car. Sometimes they decide to keep the car for longer, a long term car. They keep it for 6 months or a year, or for x amount of miles, ie 40,000 miles. The review is then no longer a 'first impressions' review, it is a 'what it’s like to own and live with, day in day out, for 6 months (or whatever the period is). They are generally seen as a more accurate assessment of the car's qualities and foibles. Not something they do often as instead of borrowing the car from the manufacturer, they have to buy it then sell it (or lease it) at the end of the review period.

Thanks a lot for the info

 

[Battpower]

I was under the impression that the Supercharging slowdown and regen nerfs applies to ALL Models S/X including Ravens (albeit to a lesser extent due to the 100 kWh packs having a 16% greater cell count), and voltage capping was applied only to older batteries with Condition Z.

Not the first time I have been mistaken, and probably not the last either.

Also from the 'previously mistaken' camp, I can confirm my Raven LR is true to type as per the behaviors being discussed.

Main difference seems to be that new cars don't have the history / data to build from. (which I'm sure is good for Tesla!)

 

[Battpower]

Poor communication is Tesla's core problem.

Without some kind of amnesty mechanism (which I have never heard of for this kind of situation) I don't see how they can come clean without being taken to the cleaners.

But absolutely, Tesla trying to limit communication to "buy now, pay invoice, collect car" and nothing further is so short sighted.

 

[Gixx1300R]

This was a blog post and it was not regarding range loss or general battery defects. It was specifically regarding bricking the battery by specifically not charging it. That's it. You left out the context and made it look like this was a general statement. It was not.

For a guide on how Tesla views range loss, please reference the text of your battery warranty. That is the only document that is legally binding here.

The question you should ask.....is a statement made by a CEO in a public forum legally binding? Can Elon say something publicly and it is binding? Just ask the SEC and there is already case law on this subject.

 

[Leeboy22001]

I still have mine. Well about 318 or so. Are you close to YouTube upset?

Many of us lost around 30 to 40 miles of range overnight, how would react if your M3 LR was reduced to almost an M3 SR+ ?

Also, how would you feel if your super fast charging that was over 150kWh was reduced to 75kWh ?

 

[ohmman]

Moderator note: I moved 5 posts that were "crapflooding" this thread off to snippiness.

 

[Droschke]

It has not been uncommon that some have shown up in this thread not to learn and exchange of ideas. Their minds are already made up to naively act as cheerleader of a company which has turned up to be dishonest and not living up to its obligations, or just because they have not been impacted themselves they view everyone else's ordeal trivial. This particular poster has apparently an issue with another poster who has started a separate thread, but just happened to be on the same topic. Rather than asking questions here and learn a few things (which he seems desperately can benefit), he starts attacking, mocking and accusing others. That's very immature. And, this is not the first time we witness this kind of behavior in this thread. The best way to respond, if any, is to direct them to post#1 first. Then they are welcome to come back and have a meaningful dialog, if that's what they are capable of. Short of that, it's us feeding their mere ignorance. Folks, direct them to post#1 first.