Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Ferrycraigs]

I always thought the number on the car represented the kWh.

So then I chewed the SC out for nothing...LOL.

As did LOTS of people. It was only when Jason Hughes started taking them apart that it all became clear.

This is what he found out.

 

[omarsultan]

Well, the confusion is well founded as my MVPA clearly states "85 kWh Battery".

 

[omarsultan]

Well, my battery its taking the scenic route from the battery farm--the latest is now next Tuesday or Wednesday. I did find out its a reman pack, so it will be interesting to see what Tesla considers an acceptable warranty replacement for my dead pack.

 

[Guy V]

Well, my battery its taking the scenic route from the battery farm--the latest is now next Tuesday or Wednesday. I did find out its a reman pack, so it will be interesting to see what Tesla considers an acceptable warranty replacement for my dead pack.

One might guess now that would be one with 185+ EPA miles range.

 

[MP3Mike]

One might guess now that would be one with 185+ EPA miles range.

Technically his car is still under the old warranty so it only needs to be able to charge and drive the car. Actually that warranty says that the replacement pack has to have at least the same amount of capacity as his pack had right before it failed.

And the new warranty states that the replacement is supposed to "be in a condition appropriate to the age and mileage of the vehicle sufficient to achieve or exceed the minimum battery capacity for the remainder of the warranty period of the original battery." So replacing a battery with one with only 185 miles of range would only be acceptable if Tesla expected zero additional degradation before the end of the warranty.

 

[Droschke]

I thought it was painfully obvious that was the goal. An ill battery reduces the ownership experience with reduced range and slower charging and reduced regen. A replacement battery before the warranty expires will likely be a huge sticking point for future used Model S buyers.

Well stated. Consider this analogy: an "ill" engine of an ICE car still under warranty ignored by the manufacturer!

 

[omarsultan]

Meanwhile, I get a daily cry for help from my car--will be curious to see if the new pack gets there before it totally goes wheels up..

I wonder if I will get a final message like the Mars Opportunity rover

 

[Guy V]

Technically his car is still under the old warranty so it only needs to be able to charge and drive the car. Actually that warranty says that the replacement pack has to have at least the same amount of capacity as his pack had right before it failed.

And the new warranty states that the replacement is supposed to "be in a condition appropriate to the age and mileage of the vehicle sufficient to achieve or exceed the minimum battery capacity for the remainder of the warranty period of the original battery." So replacing a battery with one with only 185 miles of range would only be acceptable if Tesla expected zero additional degradation before the end of the warranty.

LOL, my point is that now we know what they are thinking in terms of guidelines, essentially what they believe they can get away with.

...and we already know the mileage games they can play with the software.

 

[ohmman]

Moderator note: More posts moved away to snippiness. The topic would be a great thing to discuss!

 

[mvotb]

Technically his car is still under the old warranty so it only needs to be able to charge and drive the car. Actually that warranty says that the replacement pack has to have at least the same amount of capacity as his pack had right before it failed.

And the new warranty states that the replacement is supposed to "be in a condition appropriate to the age and mileage of the vehicle sufficient to achieve or exceed the minimum battery capacity for the remainder of the warranty period of the original battery." So replacing a battery with one with only 185 miles of range would only be acceptable if Tesla expected zero additional degradation before the end of the warranty.

Even the 185 wouldn't be acceptable assuming it's software limited. They can't limit your car and then use that for your milage, otherwise they could limit the car to 1 mile then replace it with a sack of double As.

 

[CaryRx]

Recently I got an error message at Superchargers 'Unable to DC fast charge'. It happened at different locations and sometimes when I plug in and sometimes in the middle of a charge session. It happened too many times recently to be random. Anyone else getting this message?

I recently got this message at the SuperCharger. I ended up stopping the charge session, tried to reconnect to the same Supercharger, same message. Went to another cabinet at the same location and it started up. I thought it was possibly something wrong with the specific cabinet I'd connected to.

 

[Droschke]

Recently I got an error message at Superchargers 'Unable to DC fast charge'. It happened at different locations and sometimes when I plug in and sometimes in the middle of a charge session. It happened too many times recently to be random. Anyone else getting this message?

I recently got this message at the SuperCharger. I ended up stopping the charge session, tried to reconnect to the same Supercharger, same message. Went to another cabinet at the same location and it started up. I thought it was possibly something wrong with the specific cabinet I'd connected to.

So, what's the verdict as to the root cause?

 

[CaryRx]

So, what's the verdict as to the root cause?

I haven't had any repeats of the "Unable to Fast DC charge/Supercharge" message. I was assuming it was some communication issue between the supercharger cabinet and my car. My 2013 MS85 still Supercharges at 115-1250 kW if the battery is warm and SoC is <20%. It will stay at 90-110 up until about 20-25%(soc), then taper to 70-90 up through about 40%(soc), and 60-70% through 60%(soc), and about 40-50 up through 85%(soc). Just recently did a cycle on my battery discharged to 3-4%, Supercharged to 97%. I calculated about 76-77 kW usable in the battery + 4kW sequestered buffer, giving about 80-81 kW total. I think the 85kW were really less than 85kW to start with, right? I recently ordered an OBD/cable setup to start doing some monitoring. But, my battery seems to be pretty healthy from what I can tell so far.

 

[Jkr85]

I haven't had any repeats of the "Unable to Fast DC charge/Supercharge" message. I was assuming it was some communication issue between the supercharger cabinet and my car. My 2013 MS85 still Supercharges at 115-1250 kW if the battery is warm and SoC is <20%. It will stay at 90-110 up until about 20-25%(soc), then taper to 70-90 up through about 40%(soc), and 60-70% through 60%(soc), and about 40-50 up through 85%(soc). Just recently did a cycle on my battery discharged to 3-4%, Supercharged to 97%. I calculated about 76-77 kW usable in the battery + 4kW sequestered buffer, giving about 80-81 kW total. I think the 85kW were really less than 85kW to start with, right? I recently ordered an OBD/cable setup to start doing some monitoring. But, my battery seems to be pretty healthy from what I can tell so far.

Are you sure your car is on .16x software?
Very, very healthy numbers indicate neither charge- nor batterygate

 

[Droschke]

I haven't had any repeats of the "Unable to Fast DC charge/Supercharge" message. I was assuming it was some communication issue between the supercharger cabinet and my car. My 2013 MS85 still Supercharges at 115-1250 kW if the battery is warm and SoC is <20%. It will stay at 90-110 up until about 20-25%(soc), then taper to 70-90 up through about 40%(soc), and 60-70% through 60%(soc), and about 40-50 up through 85%(soc). Just recently did a cycle on my battery discharged to 3-4%, Supercharged to 97%. I calculated about 76-77 kW usable in the battery + 4kW sequestered buffer, giving about 80-81 kW total. I think the 85kW were really less than 85kW to start with, right? I recently ordered an OBD/cable setup to start doing some monitoring. But, my battery seems to be pretty healthy from what I can tell so far.

And yet, you are not voltage capped? Do you know what your RM is @100%? What's your software version?

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I haven't had any repeats of the "Unable to Fast DC charge/Supercharge" message. I was assuming it was some communication issue between the supercharger cabinet and my car. My 2013 MS85 still Supercharges at 115-1250 kW if the battery is warm and SoC is <20%. It will stay at 90-110 up until about 20-25%(soc), then taper to 70-90 up through about 40%(soc), and 60-70% through 60%(soc), and about 40-50 up through 85%(soc). Just recently did a cycle on my battery discharged to 3-4%, Supercharged to 97%. I calculated about 76-77 kW usable in the battery + 4kW sequestered buffer, giving about 80-81 kW total. I think the 85kW were really less than 85kW to start with, right? I recently ordered an OBD/cable setup to start doing some monitoring. But, my battery seems to be pretty healthy from what I can tell so far.

The figures for a new 85 Pack were 81.5kWh Total, 77.5kWh Usable. (Full figures above at post 10,366), so I agree, your pack seems pretty healthy.

The Warning that some owners are getting after 2019.40.2 was “Maximum battery charge level reduced”. That indicates a replacement battery is required. But that is not the warning you are getting.

So overall, I think you are in good condition. Nevertheless as you are getting the monitoring hardware (OBD and Cable) I would take a whole bunch of readings now, including a snap at 100%, whilst things are still good. They may be useful as a comparison in the future.

 

[efusco]

Moderator note: More posts moved away to snippiness. The topic would be a great thing to discuss!

Folks... This thread is becoming a moderation nightmare. I had 8 reported posts from this one thread alone this morning. We're sick and tired of the back and forth arguments and personal attacks. If you have something factual to share or a question to ask regarding the thread topic, that is appropriate. If you don't like someone else or what they said, keep it to yourself. If you think someone posted something that is inappropriate REPORT IT AND DO NOT RESPOND I repeat, report and don't respond.

We have a small handful of people who seem unable to grasp this concept and get in back and forth non-topic discussions within the forum. If you are completely unable to exert enough self-control to ignore someone, then use the forum's "Ignore" feature and let the software do it for you.

 

[ran349]

So do you think it is degradation?
This equates to a loss of 9% or 22miles. It dropped 10-miles overnight after the download.

Yes, I would say you have "normal" degradation, by whatever manner the BMS determines that to be.
My car has about the same amount of degradation as yours, which is probably about average.

 

[tga]

I haven't had any repeats of the "Unable to Fast DC charge/Supercharge" message. I was assuming it was some communication issue between the supercharger cabinet and my car. My 2013 MS85 still Supercharges at 115-1250 kW if the battery is warm and SoC is <20%. It will stay at 90-110 up until about 20-25%(soc), then taper to 70-90 up through about 40%(soc), and 60-70% through 60%(soc), and about 40-50 up through 85%(soc). Just recently did a cycle on my battery discharged to 3-4%, Supercharged to 97%. I calculated about 76-77 kW usable in the battery + 4kW sequestered buffer, giving about 80-81 kW total. I think the 85kW were really less than 85kW to start with, right? I recently ordered an OBD/cable setup to start doing some monitoring. But, my battery seems to be pretty healthy from what I can tell so far.

This "Unable to Fast DC charge/Supercharge" error can also be caused by Supercharger issues; it doesn't mean a problem with your car. I saw it the first time last Sunday when I tried to charge at Lincoln, NH. I tried all 3 pairs; all failed. I went down the road to Loon Mountain to use one of their 80A destination chargers (yay, dual chargers!), and found 2 others who couldn't charge. 2 more came by while I was charging. The Supercharger still shows "Temporary closure" in the nav system.

 

[Droschke]

... and found 2 others who couldn't charge. 2 more came by while I was charging...

All four cars could not charge at the at Lincoln, NH supercharger, but could use the destination chargers? Just to confirm.