This is the key part, has been my view from day one and have repeated it from the beginning of this thread.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
This is the key part, has been my view from day one and have repeated it from the beginning of this thread.
eye.surgeon
Active Member
If I had been told by Tesla 5 years ago that supercharging regularly would eventually cause my charging speeds to be cut in half, I would have behaved very differently. I would have used supercharging only for long trips instead of frequently (once a week), as I did. They need to compensate me for their screw-up because I now have a car that is not longer suitable for out of town travel. I can't do a road trip with a Tesla that won't charge over 50kwh, despite Tesla's ridiculous new claim in their updated warranty that charging speeds will increase by "a few minutes". Try double!
People here keep talking about how Tesla is going to manage replacing all these battery packs. I see that as highly unlikely. I think a cash settlement is far more likely, which I would be fine with. It would need to cover the loss of value that will undoubtedly occur as this knowledge becomes widespread, as well as the loss of function of the car. I would guess something in the range of $15-20k would make me whole.
People here keep talking about how Tesla is going to manage replacing all these battery packs. I see that as highly unlikely. I think a cash settlement is far more likely, which I would be fine with. It would need to cover the loss of value that will undoubtedly occur as this knowledge becomes widespread, as well as the loss of function of the car. I would guess something in the range of $15-20k would make me whole.
Well stated. When you and I bought our cars there was no disclaimer by Tesla on the future charge speed throttling and voltage capping. None what so ever. Whatever they might say now might only apply to the cars sold today.
For that reason, I think replacements under warranty or was goodwill are desirable--it lets them control, so some degree, the rate of spend (replacement), keep it quiet (normal warranty work), show they stand behind their products and some point the bad packs will be flushed out of the fleet. It would be hard to control the narrative on a large scale buyback, which would do lasting damage to the brand.
Does anyone in the thread have contact info for Tesla's Legal team? I am impacted by battery gate and charge gate and am hoping for a speedy resolution. I bought my car for longer road trips which are now a total nightmare.
Tesla service keeps telling me everything is "operating normally". I don't have time to wait for the class action to play out and would like to appeal to Tesla for a buy back or replacement battery.
Please let me know if any impacted users have had success or are free to share contact info for the appropriate teams at Tesla. PM is fine if you do not want to post publicly.
Tesla service keeps telling me everything is "operating normally". I don't have time to wait for the class action to play out and would like to appeal to Tesla for a buy back or replacement battery.
Please let me know if any impacted users have had success or are free to share contact info for the appropriate teams at Tesla. PM is fine if you do not want to post publicly.
But, isn't it true that the replacements are of the same pack technology which is likely to suffer from the same issues (whatever they are that they only know)?
Also, in the eyes of the batterygated/chargegated pack owners the brand is already damaged.
It think that is unclear. There is the guy that got the de-rated 100kWh pack and I got a reman pack, so there does not seem to be a fixed resolution identified. If they are need to address this at scale, the reman route is not going provide enough packs so they are going to need to come up with something different and perhaps the de-rated pack is a test of that approach (and there is an attendant lag as supply chain ramps up).
Even with reman pack, in theory, they have a better understanding of the issue (the HV diags would seem to indicate to this) so the BMS logic should have been updated to avoid a Groundhog Day scenario.
I am going on the assumption that all 18650 packs are not problematic, because that does not seem to be the case--more than the "handful" claimed by Tesla, but not everybody.
True, but this is still a relatively contained community--even on TMC, now, I still see "hey, my supercharging seems slower" threads, so awareness is not that great. A large programmatic buyback will get media attention and much broader awareness.
IIRC, the 100 kWh pack cells have different chemistry, so that might be a plus. As Elon mentioned on the last earnings call in response to the evergreen "will the S&X get 2170 cells" question, the chemistry of the 18650 cells has been improved a number of times over the years so, newer packs, even reman pack, are an improvement to some degree. The question is if the improvements are related to things like range or longevity or maybe a bit of both.
I think 'Me too' is more appropriate for T-shirts in our case
Vancity-Tes1a
Member
Vancity-Tes1a
Member
The days of slow charging, while my home charger is broken so I'm charging from a 120v outlet getting 2kW at home, lol.
cpa
Active Member
Here we sit, keyboard at the ready as the mediation conference is nigh. I have noticed the conspicuous absence of our intrepid protagonist, DJRas. I suspect that both sides have turned over any salient documentation to the mediator and are fielding questions posed by him or her as the evidence is parsed for evaluation of prevailing at trial.
DJ might have been told to maintain a low profile of late. I hope when he starts to participate with more frequency that he brings mostly glad tidings.
What I do not understand is that some of the claims are directly related to us, whereby we assert that we have been damaged. I can imagine that any settlement will resolve itself to us personally, whether in cash or in kind. Yet other claims are specific statutory violations of various federal and California consumer protection laws, so how would those be mediated? The governments are not yet party to the lawsuit, so would the plaintiffs drop those claims as part of the mediated settlement?
(My business law professor suggested that I take the LSAT when I was a junior. She thought I had what it took. Thanks, but no thanks, said I. I think I made the right choice.)
DJ might have been told to maintain a low profile of late. I hope when he starts to participate with more frequency that he brings mostly glad tidings.
What I do not understand is that some of the claims are directly related to us, whereby we assert that we have been damaged. I can imagine that any settlement will resolve itself to us personally, whether in cash or in kind. Yet other claims are specific statutory violations of various federal and California consumer protection laws, so how would those be mediated? The governments are not yet party to the lawsuit, so would the plaintiffs drop those claims as part of the mediated settlement?
(My business law professor suggested that I take the LSAT when I was a junior. She thought I had what it took. Thanks, but no thanks, said I. I think I made the right choice.)
I'm confused... That makes it sound like you think this is arbitration. The job of a mediator is just to facility communication/negotiation between the two parties. They shouldn't be doing any parsing of the evidence.
I'm pretty sure there are only two major outcomes we will see from the mediation:
- The plaintiff and Tesla come to an agreement/settlement and the law suit is dropped. This could include, but doesn't have to, reparations to the impacted parties.
- They don't come to an agreement and it continues to trial.
jkennebeck
Member
I only disagree on your cash amount. That doesn't cover it for me. I want at least that (to replace the battery with that money) and to be compensated for loss of power P85DL had pre-update and for time lost at superchargers.
Reman packs get the original Tyco contactors replaced if they have them, and a few other small items are done. There is no module replacement. That’s why some reman packs are capped. They have also been using 90kwh packs as replacement for select 85kwh packs. That 100kwh pack posted here a while ago that is shy two modules, seems to be a unicorn so far, so I wouldn’t expect that to be anything other than a test pack(at this time).
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