I've always been surprised about the lack of information that is available through the cars infotainment system. It would be great to have an 'Advanced' feature set for us geeks who want to dig into more the data. Yes, I have SMT, and I love it. It would be great to have a bunch of additional data easily visible.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
I've always been surprised about the lack of information that is available through the cars infotainment system. It would be great to have an 'Advanced' feature set for us geeks who want to dig into more the data. Yes, I have SMT, and I love it. It would be great to have a bunch of additional data easily visible.
Likewise.
In fact not only is it useful for geeks, but how many posts are there that start 'my range just did X, is my car about to die? Is it any good?' Even with SMT or similar, from what I have read Tesla have no obligation to accept any data so sourced as a reason to recognize a deficiency / fault.
With ICE motors you have the same I guess since you don't know if a motor has been thrashed or babied (but there are more clues / evidence than with a battery pack unless you use SMT.)
While the geek in me likes numbers, data and hopefully some understanding, the car owner in me just wants to know what shape my car (battery) is in as far as the established manufacture measures are concerned.
I agree with this statement. If you're looking to buy a used Tesla, it would be great to know the condition of the battery. I had a neighbor who was looking at a P85D and I told him all about this thread and the concern about Batterygate and Chargegate. He couldn't understand it but ended up reading through some of the thread here + Reddit. Needless to say he was scared away about making the switch to a EV. I told him to see if we could go visit the car and if the person selling it would allow us to bring the OBD... that's really the only way to figure how that car has been treated.
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
Even the currently warranty is somewhat nebulous when Tesla can limit the max pack/cell voltage. The cars are tested/certified at some max pack/cell voltage, and should operate there for the life of the vehicle.
If Tesla decides to reduce the max pack/cell voltage, and that reduces degradation such that significantly fewer packs hit 30% degradation and/or have lower failure rates over the warranty period, even if they're doing this because of safety issues, then they are IMO gaming the warranty.
If they are lowering the max pack/cell voltage across a significant portion of their fleet, then they should do the same for certification/testing. Even if they aren't doing that for a significant portion of the fleet, they should still compensate owners when they choose to do that, like Ford did with the C-Max, and either extend the battery warranty or decrease the amount of degradation needed for repair for those cars.
Yes, that's the kind of 'nebulous' I had in mind.
The whole battery deal is too hidden (at least officially) and therefore no automatic disclosure of the timing and actual effect of any updates.
cpa
Active Member
"Battery failure: Yes/No" is akin to the idiot lights used back in the '50s-'80s. Gauges showing oil pressure, radiator temperature, 12V charging/discharging are helpful to most ICE drivers. At least gauges can be an indication of a possible failure that is imminent so the owner can make an appointment at a garage to have his vehicle checked out.
With Tesla we tool along blissfully ignorant of any impending battery issues until we find ourselves with the dread message: "Battery failure, car is shutting down--pull over immediately." That is followed by the delightful experience of contacting Tesla via the phone app (assuming one has a signal) to come fetch the car while one waits along Interstate 70 forty miles west of Green River.
As far as battery degradation -- x%, many of us had battery degradation of about 5% for three-plus years before one day it suddenly dropped to 15-18%. Was the 5% a lie that was corrected by improved software? Or was the reduction in range solely due to the reduction in voltage from 4.2 to 4.1?
I do not trust Tesla ever to be forthcoming about anything until (a) the courts force them or (b) they start losing market share to others.
EV_Builder
Member
Exactly instead of fighting each other or telling how smart of stupid one think he is (who knows for sure is even further away from reality) or has been is not exactly what the goal of a internet forum with a thread title is for.
Forums are a place to help people in relation to that given thread....
My ONTOPIC question would be: Can you downgrade? Can you swap the main brains for an older version to get your range back? What happens if the firmware of a new component doesn't match with the cars central MCU etc.?
Is it easy to upgrade / downgrade a component or the complete car?
This could easyly result in an article that will be proof for the NHTSA board.
I'm sure that some german manufactures will pay for it too.
even a car running an older version saying i'm full at cell level x and the other i'm full at cell voltage x would be enough. Car manufactures are bond to production equality.
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My advice, get rooted and reverse the
hvil_correction. That will get you some functionality back.
After going back and forth with Tesla they confirmed #chargegate has been imposed on my pack to increase the longevity.
They are still using that excuse? Lol
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
It might not be an excuse if battery manufacturing works out. Why pay Panasonic/etc for replacement cells if they can manufacturer their own for a fraction of the cost?
Blu Zap
Grinning member
The primary issue they are skirting, and will never acknowledge, is this reduces the chance of our older 85kWh batteries from spontaneously combusting due to dendrites forming. That is the real issue that needs our focus. Who cares about battery life if it all bursts into flames? That is my complaint with NHTSA. We have multiple examples of fires just before 2019.16.1 was released. Go figure.
I'm just curious as to what it does.
The hvil checks resistance at certain points in the circuit right? There is so way I'm touching anything high voltage lol.
Would the override option just be for aging vehicles?
Here are a few others that occurred right before the 2019.16.X software update:
Parked Teslas Keep Catching on Fire Randomly, And There's No Recall In Sight
Many of the fires happened while the Tesla was charging or parked shortly after charging. This along with comments made from Tesla has many assuming there was a thermal management issue with the battery cells especially when charging to a higher individual cell voltage. One day it would be nice if Tesla explained what happened so that we aren't left assuming and spreading around false, or to but it mildly inferred, information.
There's a gateway setting to override the number of HVIL nodes in the loop, usually used in some oddball cases where a dual motor chassis is built as a single motor car or whatever (things they don't do anymore, but needed a way to keep these cars going). Nothing to do with range loss or anything like that.
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