Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Chaserr]

I understand that too. But Tesla makes the best cars right now, and dollar to value is untouched.

I'm looking to test drive a Porsche as soon as they have them available. It's priced less than my Tesla now and is better overall but I still can't overlook what Tesla includes extra at a better price. I can't say I will never buy another anythin g because eventually that would leave me without any options to buy.

The company is the problem. The cars are exceptional. The company can and must change for the better.

 

[johnman10]

I understand that too. But Tesla makes the best cars right now, and dollar to value is untouched.

I'm looking to test drive a Porsche as soon as they have them available. It's priced less than my Tesla now and is better overall but I still can't overlook what Tesla includes extra at a better price. I can't say I will never buy another anythin g because eventually that would leave me without any options to buy.

The company is the problem. The cars are exceptional. The company can and must change for the better.

I honestly would not call the car exceptional. Not anymore.
I think about it like this: Imagine you buy a Nissan GTR with say 500hp. You can easily tune it to 900hp. Could Nissan deliver it to you right from the beginning with 900hp? Of course they could, but they don't.
So a car that holds its specifications for 3.5 years (in my case) before the manufacturer has to cripple it in order to avoid its warranty obligations, is all but exceptional. We bought a car that is so pumped up, that actually does not really exist. Porsche has around 10kwh locked in the Taycan. That is like double than the Model S. And they just let Elon brag about the better range.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I've said before, and I'll say again: This lawsuit will not go to trial. Even if Tesla were to prevail on a majority of the complaints, the optics of such a lawsuit would cast Tesla in a negative light. This trial would receive enormous publicity. It would be the tech version of David vs. Goliath with Goliath winning. Tesla does not want any discovery out in the open--discovery like how and why the Service Centers told us our batteries were normal when they were not; discovery like the software changes were "minor bug fixes and improvements;" discovery of how much (or little) research, development, testing, and analyzing the early batteries with and without thousands and thousands of kWh via Supercharging; internal emails and memos before, during, and after the suit was filed; the list would be pretty extensive. This suit would require dueling EE experts testifying about Tesla's design and manufacturing processes. No doubt a trial of this magnitude and complexity would last for months. The average citizen juror would be overwhelmed with a whole lot of physics and arcane warranty/consumer protection law.

Therefore, I believe that this class action will result in the dreaded negotiated settlement with Tesla neither confirming or denying all these accusations. Rather, "in the interest of expedience and fairness, Tesla will agree to do thus and such for all members of the affected class."

As to just how extensive and equitable any negotiated settlement will be, I do not feel that very many of the above will even be entertained by either side. It will be simple and easily understood by us members. It may only be some cash; it may be a combination of cash and a discounted replacement battery; it may be a trade-in on a new car with a special discounted price. I think it will boil down to who blinks first.

If Tesla is so scared of discovery, plaintiffs have no incentive to settle. Put this in front of a jury and it becomes extremely simple, not more complex. It’s a simple matter on its face, everything else is noise.

Sorry, no, I don't get it. Sounds like you are saying that only people who have a problem are coming to this forum, and that implies that it's a small percentage of owners who are affected.
You are right that it hasn't been quantified, so while we don't know if most cars have been affected, we also do not know that most have not. You could be in minority, or majority. There is someone who can clear that up real easily, but won't. After all, if it's such a small number of owners, then it's an easy problem to solve, but hasn't been solved yet.

Many in my FB group have this issue but have never heard of TMC. What you see here is far from representative.

Tesla is fighting MCU recall by discounting the MCU upgrade (2500->1500) seems like customers are wiling to go for it! Not only does Tesla avoid having to fix the MCU1 they also get revenue and avoid all the work related to swapping MCU memory chip.

I think they'll fight the battery "recall" by offering deep discounted battery upgrades.

Extracting even more money from customers to correct a manufacturer problem is not a viable solution. Maybe you have a bunch of money laying around, most of us do not.

 

[qwk]

Less maintenance = instead of doing oil changes you replace the entire $20k battery.

Don't forget drive units. My last one lasted 5k miles. I’ll take $60 oil changes anytime.

 

[Chaserr]

Mine lasted 25k this time but its the only thing Tesla still warrantees so I forgot!

 

[islandbayy]

Don't forget drive units. My last one lasted 5k miles. I’ll take $60 oil changes anytime.

On my first MS, I was due for drive unit #5, the last one lasted 60 (The drive home from the service center...)

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Don't forget drive units. My last one lasted 5k miles. I’ll take $60 oil changes anytime.

I've gone through five of them. FIVE! My battery/du warranty expires this August. I'm absolutely terrified of the prospect of paying over $15,000 for a battery and/or $5,000-$10,000 for a drive unit in the next few years.

 

[oaito]

I've gone through five of them. FIVE! My battery/du warranty expires this August. I'm absolutely terrified of the prospect of paying over $15,000 for a battery and/or $5,000-$10,000 for a drive unit in the next few years.

Ah, is this some flaw with the Performance DU? In my S 85 from 2015 is still the original DU, more than 235000km driven to far, ~70% long distance German Autobahn with AP1 thus only on occasion more than 150km/h.

BR! Oaito.

 

[mymagiccarpet]

If Tesla is so scared of discovery, plaintiffs have no incentive to settle. Put this in front of a jury and it becomes extremely simple, not more complex. It’s a simple matter on its face, everything else is noise.
Many in my FB group have this issue but have never heard of TMC. What you see here is far from representative.
Extracting even more money from customers to correct a manufacturer problem is not a viable solution. Maybe you have a bunch of money laying around, most of us do not.

Glad you mentioned there are others who are not aware of the forum.

I will only think about spending money in this case if I'm getting something that wasn't originally on the spec sheet and has reasonable cost, eg. higher capacity battery. Even then, I don't want to be pigeonholed into it. Under no circumstances I will help or fully pay for manufacturing or design defect especially while it's under warranty.
They simply do not seem interested in reestablishing trust with their customers. Asking us to pay or even help pay for their issues is simply more of the same, and not a step in the right direction.

 

[Chaserr]

Ah, is this some flaw with the Performance DU? In my S 85 from 2015 is still the original DU, more than 235000km driven to far, ~70% long distance German Autobahn with AP1 thus only on occasion more than 150km/h.

BR! Oaito.

I think Tesla just didn't design it with much overhead and Performance cars wear it out faster. Newer replacements have lasted longer but I had one like @islandbayy that was faulty right away. It lasted a lot longer than 60 miles though!
Maybe lack of over-design is a Tesla pattern. DUs used to wear out quickly because of that design philosophy (Are the P100D going through them as fast? I think more power on new cars means we should be fine with our less powerful replacements). MCUs were clearly not designed to last 8 years either. Maybe batteries weren't designed to last? If the battery warranty was as real as the DU warranty and we'd had them fixed 2 years ago, I would have already forgotten about it like I forget the drive units don't last so long. World's Best Warranty worked for my drive unit woes - Tesla you should learn from your strengths here.

@mymagiccarpet What I want is that new 359v 85 uncapped. I'll pay today for a 300 ish mile 85 that charges at the originally advertised 90kw or better, and doesn't need to be carefully treated with an abundance of caution.

 

[First EV]

I would have to disagree. I have a 2011 Nissan Leaf, and that is the most reliable car I have ever own. Except the battery degradation I had zero issue at 93k miles.

Tesla maintenance is expensive because not too many shops are doing it. I complained to a neighbor about the $280 to replace the 12V battery on the Model S. He told me that it cost him more on his GMC and it does not last much longer due to a lot of city driving his wife does. It all depends, but it is nothing new about electric motors charger and inverters. At work I have motor, inverter, charger systems that worked with minimal maintenance for over a decade. The batteries are new tech.

And back to the subject, I charged at 90% this morning after a long time of not going over 75%. I was surprised that the pumps were barely making any noise. Something changed, it is 37F outside but the garage was still above 50F.

Ignoring one of the biggest if not the biggest concerns about EVs, ie the battery, and then going on to claim how reliable it was doesn't make sense. That's like saying my iPhone is indestructible except for the 7 broken screens I had to replace. A sample size of 1 Nissan leaf doesn't really tell us anything, we don't know where this one leaf is on the bell curve of Nissan leafs. I believe you have had these motors and pumps running for decades, different application than a car. That would be like me comparing the golfcarts at work in the plant that have been used for 30 years to a car. Your forgetting teslas rear drive unit bearing noise, loss of range, charge speed reduction, emc failures, climate control issues, door handles, etc. As for your neighbor sorry to hear he paid too much. Again thats a sample size of one.

 

[LaurS]

Ignoring one of the biggest if not the biggest concerns about EVs, ......

I was just trying to point out that other than the battery tech there is nothing more "evolved and refined parts in ice cars" than the EV.

As the younger generation will start designing ice cars all that "evolved and refined thing" will disappear. They just moved my outlook search on the top bar .... dummies.

 

[gmo43]

At this point waiting a little longer and selling it. Sadly will go back to ICE. Model 3 is too small and Y is too.

Edit: waiting a little longer to see what happens with the class action.

 

[First EV]

I was just trying to point out that other than the battery tech there is nothing more "evolved and refined parts in ice cars" than the EV.

As the younger generation will start designing ice cars all that "evolved and refined thing" will disappear. They just moved my outlook search on the top bar .... dummies.

That sounds like a very ageist comment. Sounds like you're saying people younger than you are less capable than people your age and will always be. There is a lot more than just the battery tech. All the software, driver interface controls, regen capability, yeah thats all new in this combination and application.

 

[davidc18]

Tesla, love the car - the company not so much.

 

[cpa]

Tesla, love the car - the company not so much.

That pretty well sums up the previous 14,000 some-odd posts in this thread.

 

[raphy3]

It's been a bit hard to keep up lately, but I've been trying to figure out if the 2020.48.12 update fixed chargegate. I see anecdotes that it brought people's SuC rate back to like when the car was new, or at least much much better than where it is now prior to the update. Is this an official thing though? Also, elsewhere in the forum users who never had the batterygate issue are going around claiming that this whole problem is now solved, end of story. Where is that coming from?

 

[SmartElectric]

So your car does not have chargegate? What about terrible zero REGEN at 50-60F each morning? I don't believe you could do the same trips (minus 5 percent) as you did when your car had v8 software. I waste 30% of my battery these days with BMS warming up my battery and lack of REGEN. Now I need to build a garage for it and keep it above 60F.

My car VIN 6000ish shipped in 2013 with early firmware. Charged at 90kW max and charge curve of 110-SOC% above 20% SOC from factory. Same as today and had never been different I have an OBDII device monitoring my car for many years. My car always had regenerative braking maxed out or Zeroed in cold weather. As a Canadian, best cold weather car I’ve ever owned by far.

 

[Droschke]

It's been a bit hard to keep up lately, but I've been trying to figure out if the 2020.48.12 update fixed chargegate. I see anecdotes that it brought people's SuC rate back to like when the car was new, or at least much much better than where it is now prior to the update. Is this an official thing though? Also, elsewhere in the forum users who never had the batterygate issue are going around claiming that this whole problem is now solved, end of story. Where is that coming from?

The 2020.48.12 has not done anything I'm aware of by reading the other threads for the chargegated 85 kWh packs.

A handful of owners in this thread have reported either partial or full capacity restored while the majority are still in the capped status. There are still lots of capped cars out there. I believe some, either by their lack of understanding of the facts or just being intentionally deceitful, are behind the rumors.

 

[fbitz777]

My car VIN 6000ish shipped in 2013 with early firmware. Charged at 90kW max and charge curve of 110-SOC% above 20% SOC from factory. Same as today and had never been different I have an OBDII device monitoring my car for many years. My car always had regenerative braking maxed out or Zeroed in cold weather. As a Canadian, best cold weather car I’ve ever owned by far.

My Bolt gets great Regen in Cold (30F) weather so I guess it's way better than our Teslas. Sorry to be a pain but lack of Regen at even 40F is a big problem for me and has caused my front brakes to wear out at 50k.. Lack of Limited Regen for over half the year is actually very disturbing as you need to adjust from a one pedal driving to a two pedal driving many times a day! You'd think Tesla would be able to fix this with software (i.e. you release the gas pedal and it engages the brakes)