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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
dark cloud
Active Member
Were they forced to offer it? Or are they being more friendly I wonder?
And what is a "HV shipping evaluation tool"? A process for third party repair centres to order and replace the HV battery?
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Those prices are fine for independent shops but way too high for individual DIYers. Probably by design.
Car is finally sold at a fair price. I feel so relieved. I never believed I could get so much frustrated by a car. Will now make sure I will never do the same mistake and will try to protect as many people as I can.
Looking back, what was the most significant core issue for you?
For me, I feel that unsolicited software updates (or at least poorly controlled, poor quality and no formal statement of purpose with option to decline if non-critical) is the biggest core frustration. For as long as there is a choice it will be a dark day when I have no choice but to knowingly accept the never ending adjustment and tweeking that goes on with Tesla.
It sounds like Tesla is not the brand for you. There are pros or cons to every vehicle out there. Some view the constant stream of updates that change vehicle functionality as a plus, some view it as a con. I personally like change, my wife not so much. She'll continue with Toyota
I don't mind change, but need to know what the changes are for and that they don't have negative consequences. Although a tiny thing, I don't understand why USB Media Player artwork disappeared and so far not returned.It sounds like Tesla is not the brand for you. There are pros or cons to every vehicle out there. Some view the constant stream of updates that change vehicle functionality as a plus, some view it as a con. I personally like change, my wife not so much. She'll continue with Toyota
The issue is not changing for better. Many of us feel a lot these "changes" have downgraded our cars. I ,for one, believe my car's software was substantially better and more stable than so many so-called "updates" the car has suffered since new. The car back then had solid quality software, much better GUI, useful functionalities, etc. Change for better, yes. For worse, no.
Also, there is no secrete that our cars are being used as beta testers:
Opinion | Why Tesla’s ‘Beta Testing’ Puts the Public at Risk (Published 2021)
We’re all Tesla’s guinea pigs.
Some trust Tesla engineers to make the best balance between performance and longevity and other goals based on gathering new information. Has worked for me for 80k happy miles.
Some people are afraid to trust experts to do their job and want to know all the details and imagine that they can second guess them. Others have better things to do with their time.
Some people are afraid to trust experts to do their job and want to know all the details and imagine that they can second guess them. Others have better things to do with their time.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Some people lost large amounts of range and charging speed by trusting those engineers and still have not been made whole. Poor communication from Tesla made it worse. Not hard to understand why some people have been frustrated and turned off to the brand.
cpa
Active Member
The issue is not changing for better. Many of us feel a lot these "changes" have downgraded our cars. I ,for one, believe my car's software was substantially better and more stable than so many so-called "updates" the car has suffered since new. The car back then had solid quality software, much better GUI, useful functionalities, etc. Change for better, yes. For worse, no.
Also, there is no secrete that our cars are being used as beta testers:
Opinion | Why Tesla’s ‘Beta Testing’ Puts the Public at Risk (Published 2021)
We’re all Tesla’s guinea pigs.www.nytimes.com
Tesla's software updates closely resemble Monty Hall and Let's Make a Deal. Usually when a contestant trades their known prize of, say, $500 for what is on Jay's tray or what is behind the curtain (where the lovely Carol Merrill is standing), they trade up. Maybe he gets a vacation for two to the Bahamas. Maybe he gets a Rolex watch. Maybe he gets kitchen appliances--refrigerator, cook top, oven, and dishwasher. Or maybe he gets a goat or tickets to the circus or a year's supply of Dr. Pepper.
I assume that there have been contestants who would have been happy to keep their $500 even if they knew what was on Jay's tray or behind the curtain because they have no desire for the better prizes or the booby prizes. But they were hoping for the Rolex watch so they took the chance and got the appliances instead (or the goat.)
(We can ignore that frequently the contestants will take a discounted amount of cash in lieu of prizes, cuz, well they gotta pay taxes on the prizes or do not necessarily want what they won anyway.)
So, yeah, I am in agreement with Droschke. Better to know the specific improvements, enhancements, and augmentations in advance of a software update than trade what works quite satisfactorily to something that is unknown and may not necessarily be an improvement.
I agree that there have been many improvements and enhancements in the seven years we've had our S: Creep mode (which I don't like but many do); Camp Mode; Dog Mode; Joe Mode (for newer cars); energy graph; Supercharger display with red teardrops (better than the vertical hash marks which were better than zip before); timed departure charging.
But there also have been fails in my book: Dash display of speed and battery level; music screen always appearing when the car turns on; the aforementioned tweaking of range/SC speeds; AC fan reset to 1 when the car is asleep; bottom bar menu for calls, energy, and a bunch of other stuff. Clearly safety changes must be installed.
It should be easy for Tesla to generate a mass email when substantive changes are coming down the pike. It should clearly explain and illustrate what the update will do, and what it will change.
cpa
Active Member
Experts in what? Expert programmers and design engineers? Or experts in gauging the public? I have personally known many engineers--civil, electrical, mechanical, software, and others who are absolutely brilliant in their chosen fields. But they are woefully uninformed and ignorant about human nature and people. These individuals are as logical and reasoned as the best of us because their fields demand such thinking. They love hunting their quarry to solve problems. But sometimes there just aren't any problems, but they invent one anyway.
Not all of us are wired like engineers and designers. We do not share their enthusiasm with novelties. We are dealing with subjective matters with a lot of these innovations. It is difficult for objective thinkers to think subjectively outside their niches.
Sounds to me like you can start another class action lawsuit over capacity loss that has not been restored. If you do, please also include reduction in supercharging speed unlike the current plaintiffs, who decided to take that off the table after negotiating with themselves. I guess it never occurred to them that lawsuits aren't always about facts—they are almost always about negotiating leverage.
My next EV will not be a Tesla. I'm sad to say that the "Tesla experiment" will not end well simply because of who is in charge. Upcoming EVs from Rivian, Mercedes, and even GM sound far more compelling than anything Tesla has to offer. The vast majority of vehicle buyers don't care about 0-60 times which Elon is obsessed with. Quality is much higher on the list and where Tesla absolutely cannot compete on any level.
2022 will go down as the year Tesla lost.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
This is unlikely. The truth is relatively few people have been affected by any of this and few are even aware of the issue. Cell and pack technology will continue to improve as will Tesla's manufacturing abilities. I'd also speculate a higher percentage of Apple customers have had poor experiences with the products but it hasn't hurt the company in any meaningful way. Hell Chrysler put out crap products for decades and they're still around. A significant majority of Tesla owners are quite happy with the products and we are no longer in the early adopter stage where it's only fan bois who will put up with junk. If in a few years the 3/Y owners are hit with something similar in significant numbers that's when it could actually cause some damage.
Experts in Tesla batteries and Tesla BMS.
I honestly don’t understand what point you think you are making. Tesla engineers are constantly tweaking their software, and hardware, to maximize the right balance between performance and longevity and other goals. It’s just engineering which often involves trade offs and projections based on information available. And more information becomes available later.
That may be imperfect, and thus probabilistic, but it isn’t subjective in the sense that you seem to be concerned with in your post — at least to the extent I can discern a point in there.
I think you are correct. If everyone of those tweeks was run by a approval authority to ensure there was no detriment or masking of underlying deficiency that should be remedied by a different method. Likewise, there must be an obligation to disclose all significant changes introduced.
When you buy your car it is almost bound to be a compromise, but you put your money on a stated compromise as defined in the vehicle spectators at purchase. The warranty should offer assurance that the original spec is met.
When tweeks and adjustments - whatever their justification - materialy change what was was sold to them, there is a problem.
beatle
Active Member
Emphasis mine. It isn't a matter of whether the engineers know what they're doing. I'm sure they know very well what they're doing. The problem is that Tesla chooses to short change the owner in lieu of actually fixing the problem at its root cause: some physical/chemical fault in the battery itself. The true fix is replacing it under warranty with a pack that does not suffer this fault.
I'm sure GM also wished they could have "fixed" their battery problem via software as well and simply shelled out a few hundred bucks to the unlucky owners, but they couldn't.
Haven't seen this reason explained before. I have a 2017 MS 75. 2 years ago the charger in my garage stopped working. Home service checked and replaced the cable. I instantly saw that the charging speed which was 30 was reduced to about 25. The service guy said it was a change in the new cable so I lost a large percentage of my charging as well as gaining a longer time to charge.
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