Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[sorka]

For me it takes about 3 hours to go from 10% to 100% so if i am doing something i just set it to 100% and leave it because it takes so long I'll never finish after it does. My charge curve is still *sugar* i get up to 127kW for a moment but it drops quickly. I used to get 72kW at 50% and now its 51kW at 50%

If your battery is at the perfect temperature, you should see 60KW at 50%. When mine was brand new in 2015, I saw 74kw at 54%.

 

[airborne spoon]

If your battery is at the perfect temperature, you should see 60KW at 50%. When mine was brand new in 2015, I saw 74kw at 54%.

I'm aware of should and was but this is the facts. My spreadsheet only includes data points from when the battery is warm or has completed it's warming for SC cycle.
You can see there is a couple outliers but the majority are IVO 50%=50kW

 

[sorka]

I'm aware of should and was but this is the facts. My spreadsheet only includes data points from when the battery is warm or has completed it's warming for SC cycle.
You can see there is a couple outliers but the majority are IVO 50%=50kW

View attachment 758811

That's not what I see looking at your spreadsheet. I see a ton of 110+ sums.

 

[airborne spoon]

That's not what I see looking at your spreadsheet. I see a ton of 110+ sums.

I dono why you're adding *sugar* together but as I said before the nerfing of chargegate 50% was 72kW which was also before I started logging my charges and now 50=50'ish.

And if you wanna add *sugar* then it was 122 and now it's 105'ish.

 

[sorka]

I dono why you're adding *sugar* together but as I said before the nerfing of chargegate 50% was 72kW which was also before I started logging my charges and now 50=50'ish.

And if you wanna add *sugar* then it was 122 and now it's 105'ish.

Not sure what you mean by sugar. All I said is that it will be 110+ if your battery is the optimal temperature. If it's not, it'll be lower. Your own table shows plenty of samples of 110+. I'm guessing you live in the Barstow area since most of the samples where you aren't getting the max charge rate are in Barstow.

You can game it by turning on Insane/Ludicrous + to warm the battery before you leave so that by the time you actually arrive at the SC your battery will be warm enough for the maximum charge rate....provided that you have at least 23% SOC since the battery heater will disengage once you drop to 20%. If you rely on the navigation only to warm your battery or don't even do that when driving to the SC, your battery will be too cold for the maximum charge rate.

 

[cpa]

Not sure what you mean by sugar. All I said is that it will be 110+ if your battery is the optimal temperature. If it's not, it'll be lower. Your own table shows plenty of samples of 110+. I'm guessing you live in the Barstow area since most of the samples where you aren't getting the max charge rate are in Barstow.

You can game it by turning on Insane/Ludicrous + to warm the battery before you leave so that by the time you actually arrive at the SC your battery will be warm enough for the maximum charge rate....provided that you have at least 23% SOC since the battery heater will disengage once you drop to 20%. If you rely on the navigation only to warm your battery or don't even do that when driving to the SC, your battery will be too cold for the maximum charge rate.

I have observed that once the ambient temperature drops below about 55 degrees or so, that charging speeds taper more quickly regardless of driving time and preconditioning. When the temps are above 55ish, the 110 sum stays fairly constant. With the cooler temperatures, the charge rate starts out similarly, but after 10-15 minutes, the battery has cooled enough so that the total is closer to 100. This is with a '14 Model S85.

 

[sorka]

I have observed that once the ambient temperature drops below about 55 degrees or so, that charging speeds taper more quickly regardless of driving time and preconditioning. When the temps are above 55ish, the 110 sum stays fairly constant. With the cooler temperatures, the charge rate starts out similarly, but after 10-15 minutes, the battery has cooled enough so that the total is closer to 100. This is with a '14 Model S85.

I've noticed that too if I don't pre-game it by starting heating earlier. If you rely on just the nav to pre-heat the battery and it's really cold outside, it doesn't seem to take into account colder outside temps which will make it take longer to heat up.

 

[airborne spoon]

Not sure what you mean by sugar. All I said is that it will be 110+ if your battery is the optimal temperature. If it's not, it'll be lower. Your own table shows plenty of samples of 110+. I'm guessing you live in the Barstow area since most of the samples where you aren't getting the max charge rate are in Barstow.

You can game it by turning on Insane/Ludicrous + to warm the battery before you leave so that by the time you actually arrive at the SC your battery will be warm enough for the maximum charge rate....provided that you have at least 23% SOC since the battery heater will disengage once you drop to 20%. If you rely on the navigation only to warm your battery or don't even do that when driving to the SC, your battery will be too cold for the maximum charge rate.

Hahahaha *sugar* is what this forum auto corrects when you say s h i t, it also edits **** and most swearing.

Every single time I take a sampling for my spreadsheet the battery is warm, I base that on the fact I always nav to a SC and most of the time it doesn't preheat and the few times it does the notice is gone within a couple miles of arrival. And I drive like a bat out of hell when I drive. Also all samples are taken when the stall is not shared or if it is a shared stall I dont take a reading until the speed starts to drop which implies the car is pulling max power but less than the max the SC can output.

And I'm over 50 miles outside of barstow which is why I hit it a lot since I need the juice to get home becasue I can only charge at 120v 10A at home, I need to leave barstow at 50% or more so I can make it home and have an extra 25% to get back to barstow in the event I don't have enough time to charge at home before I need to leave again.

 

[sorka]

Hahahaha *sugar* is what this forum auto corrects when you say s h i t, it also edits **** and most swearing.

Every single time I take a sampling for my spreadsheet the battery is warm, I base that on the fact I always nav to a SC and most of the time it doesn't preheat and the few times it does the notice is gone within a couple miles of arrival. And I drive like a bat out of hell when I drive. Also all samples are taken when the stall is not shared or if it is a shared stall I dont take a reading until the speed starts to drop which implies the car is pulling max power but less than the max the SC can output.

And I'm over 50 miles outside of barstow which is why I hit it a lot since I need the juice to get home becasue I can only charge at 120v 10A at home, I need to leave barstow at 50% or more so I can make it home and have an extra 25% to get back to barstow in the event I don't have enough time to charge at home before I need to leave again.

Then I agree with you, your battery charges slower than other 85s that are starting at the optimal temperature.

 

[JRP3]

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[SmartElectric]

First, there is no coolant pump in the pack, at least as far as I have seen from all of the teardowns. Second every module has a temperature sensor on the inlet side and outlet side, so they could detect the heating. Third, if it were a cooling pump failure all of the modules would have heated up not just module 9. So module 9 was/is probably just a weak module all along.

FYI that Tesla Model S diagnostic capability for older cars like our 2013 is not good enough to detect coolant pump failure. Service center spent yesterday trying to identify battery preconditioning issue in cold weather and suspected (and ruled out) it was PTC heater till they discovered a coolant pump issue.

All this to say, the coolant pump is not well covered in the car diagnostics shown to owners on the dash, and even service centers take time to find issues.

 

[SmartElectric]

Tesla told me I had a failed coolant pump in my pack, but they only found out about it after they disassembled the battery. Failed cooling pumps don't throw errors, and the failed pump allowed temperatures to get so high Module #9 in my battery was damaged so much it runs 0.3 volts lower than the other modules under acceleration.

Can confirm, coolant pump failures are not visible to Tesla owners on the dash, and even service centers take time to diagnose and identify. My local SC thought I had a bad PTC heater, but found the coolant pump failed. Took them the day yesterday to find this.

In a previous gas car a silent coolant pump failure doomed my engine to overheating (sensor to detect the heating was on the wrong side of the coolant pump!) causing loss of the entire engine.

These things seem like obvious places to have the right sensors to identify, but my EV had a similar hidden issue as a gas car did 20 years ago.

 

[maximizese]

Can confirm, coolant pump failures are not visible to Tesla owners on the dash, and even service centers take time to diagnose and identify. My local SC thought I had a bad PTC heater, but found the coolant pump failed. Took them the day yesterday to find this.

In a previous gas car a silent coolant pump failure doomed my engine to overheating (sensor to detect the heating was on the wrong side of the coolant pump!) causing loss of the entire engine.

These things seem like obvious places to have the right sensors to identify, but my EV had a similar hidden issue as a gas car did 20 years ago.

Do you suppose it was the actual pump that failed or a sensor that failed? In the days, I would say you could install a water temperature sensor downstream to determine if something like the coolant heater was working properly, but I honestly have no idea the layout and function of Tesla's systems...it's all a mystery to me. I generally rely on those with greater knowledge to share their findings on model specific forums.

Next question, do you think revisions have been made for later models that either avoid or self-diagnose the problem you're facing? I've got a 11/2013 built S85 and ever since a software update from 2 years ago, I'm hearing the coolant pumps and fans going to work when the car charging about 78% SOC both while Supercharging or Level 2 charging...haven't tried Level 1 charging yet.

 

[islandbayy]

Can confirm, coolant pump failures are not visible to Tesla owners on the dash, and even service centers take time to diagnose and identify. My local SC thought I had a bad PTC heater, but found the coolant pump failed. Took them the day yesterday to find this.

In a previous gas car a silent coolant pump failure doomed my engine to overheating (sensor to detect the heating was on the wrong side of the coolant pump!) causing loss of the entire engine.

These things seem like obvious places to have the right sensors to identify, but my EV had a similar hidden issue as a gas car did 20 years ago.

I need to disagree with that a bit. It's been a while to exact details are getting a little fuzzy, however, back in summer of 2013 I believe it was, on my old MS60, I got a CALL from Tesla at about 7pm, saying my car reported that one of the 3 coolant pumps was reporting issues, they said they would send someone out in the morning to replace it. 7am my doorbell rang with a "ranger". He replaced all 3 to be on the safe side with the newest pump revision.

Now, being a new company, and new production, it is quite possible they actually had people watching all the cars remotely like a hawk, but the lady that called me specifically said the car contacted THEM and reported the pump issue.

 

[SmartElectric]

I need to disagree with that a bit. It's been a while to exact details are getting a little fuzzy, however, back in summer of 2013 I believe it was, on my old MS60, I got a CALL from Tesla at about 7pm, saying my car reported that one of the 3 coolant pumps was reporting issues

I specifically outlined the issue to Tesla and the remote diagnostics did not identify the issue with the pump. I suspected PTC heater (as we already had that replaced once), but it took them a day to discover it was the pump, not PTC. They initially quoted me $2K CAD for PTC heater replacement but then altered that to only the pump. Tesla absolutely was unable to diagnose this remotely, and even took hours when they had physical access to the car.

 

[SmartElectric]

Do you suppose it was the actual pump that failed or a sensor that failed?

Next question, do you think revisions have been made for later models that either avoid or self-diagnose the problem you're facing?

Pump, not a sensor, the PDF I received had the pump part #.
No idea if Tesla updated the pumps, but from replies after me, sure seems like Tesla knew pumps were trouble in early cars..
Mine is VIN 6000-ish, very early car.

 

[trayloader]

If the pump would be the cause you would be the first to shelve out 2K and have your speed restored.
If this „fog bomb“ doesn’t help you have to lawyer up. Please keep us updated very important

 

[Michael7S]

In Rasmussen v. Tesla, Inc. Order on Motion for Settlement, it appears that Tesla, Inc. asserted to the court that, at the time of settlement, "...among the affected vehicles: Max battery voltage fully restored = 1,552 cars, Battery replaced: 57 cars, Vehicles with data unavailable to access = 21 cars, Total = 1,743 cars. "
I cannot find that document in the court records. Does anyone have a link to that?

My 2013 P85 remains 'unrestored' and I suspect others are still disabled as well. A $600 check for lost miles shouldn't absolve Tesla of responsibility if a car is still capped or needs a new battery. Assuming for a moment that Tesla is telling the truth to the court, then the unrestored cars remain capped for a reason, which might warrant repair/replacement.

I'd like to increase the pressure to get our capped cars restored and/or repaired. My plan so far is to

1) email Tesla asking for them to uncap my car, and offering to come in if it's one of the 'data unavailable' cases. Of course I expect them to ignore this. They were always very careful to discuss the battery issues on the phone and never in writing

2) write to the court that at least one vehicle isn't restored

3) I don't know what to do after that. File a separate case in Santa Clara Superior Court?

Perhaps I could start a shared spreadsheet where we can list the vehicles that remain disabled and present that to the court? I'm open to ideas on how to format that to be factual and compelling.

Is your car still capped?

 

[Chaserr]

FYI that Tesla Model S diagnostic capability for older cars like our 2013 is not good enough to detect coolant pump failure. Service center spent yesterday trying to identify battery preconditioning issue in cold weather and suspected (and ruled out) it was PTC heater till they discovered a coolant pump issue.

All this to say, the coolant pump is not well covered in the car diagnostics shown to owners on the dash, and even service centers take time to find issues.

I experienced the same issue. One of my coolant pumps failed and tesla was unable to diagnose for about a year. After repeat visits for excessive charging noise they did replace it and the notes showed pump failure so techs can easily miss this failure even when repeating the same service again and again looking for the cause.

 

[Gixx1300R]

In Rasmussen v. Tesla, Inc. Order on Motion for Settlement, it appears that Tesla, Inc. asserted to the court that, at the time of settlement, "...among the affected vehicles: Max battery voltage fully restored = 1,552 cars, Battery replaced: 57 cars, Vehicles with data unavailable to access = 21 cars, Total = 1,743 cars. "
I cannot find that document in the court records. Does anyone have a link to that?

My 2013 P85 remains 'unrestored' and I suspect others are still disabled as well. A $600 check for lost miles shouldn't absolve Tesla of responsibility if a car is still capped or needs a new battery. Assuming for a moment that Tesla is telling the truth to the court, then the unrestored cars remain capped for a reason, which might warrant repair/replacement.

I'd like to increase the pressure to get our capped cars restored and/or repaired. My plan so far is to

1) email Tesla asking for them to uncap my car, and offering to come in if it's one of the 'data unavailable' cases. Of course I expect them to ignore this. They were always very careful to discuss the battery issues on the phone and never in writing

2) write to the court that at least one vehicle isn't restored

3) I don't know what to do after that. File a separate case in Santa Clara Superior Court?

Perhaps I could start a shared spreadsheet where we can list the vehicles that remain disabled and present that to the court? I'm open to ideas on how to format that to be factual and compelling.

Is your car still capped?

I speculate that all Teslas sold from 2012 to 2016 have a bad battery chemistry. I am only guessing but that is what I believe since those year Teslas were many effected by battery gate and charge gate. Tesla reduced the charging rate and battery capacity until most of those cars were out of warranty. Sending an email will do nothing. If you think there is a case then get a lawyer