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Suggestion For Change To Auto-Folding Mirror Operation

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by Andyw2100, Dec 20, 2015.

?

After reading the first post in this thread the following response best describes me:

Poll closed Dec 19, 2017.
  1. I do not use auto-folding mirrors and would not even if the suggested change was made.

    2 vote(s)
    2.0%
  2. I do not use auto-folding mirrors but might if the suggested change was made.

    9 vote(s)
    8.8%
  3. I use auto-folding mirrors and would be in favor of the suggested change.

    65 vote(s)
    63.7%
  4. I use auto-folding mirrors and would be opposed to the suggested change.

    26 vote(s)
    25.5%
  1. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    Zythryn, I would like to better understand your use-case. Do you manually fold in your mirrors currently? If so, do you have auto-fold turned on so it would unfold the mirrors immediately when you open the door after manually folding them in? I am trying to understand how you would experience a difference. The only thing I can think of is if you fold in manually and then desire to have the mirror immediately unfold. But if that is the case, why did you manually fold in the mirror?
     
  2. ChadFeldheimer

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    That's a great intermediate solution. It didn't occur to me that turning off auto-fold would also turn off auto-unfold. I will also disable auto-fold and manually fold/unfold.

    If Tesla added functionality to temporarily disable auto-unfold after the mirrors have been manually folded, then the auto-fold feature would provide value to me and I would re-enable it.
     
  3. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    Yeah. For me, the annoyance of having to fold it manually so often was the lesser evil than accidentally forgetting to refold the mirrors as I pull out my garage!
     
  4. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    As Cyclone is suggesting, I think, Zythryn, that you may be misunderstanding what would change.

    In your description of wanting to use the mirrors when you back out, the only reason they would be folded in would be if you had manually folded them before parking. If the spot was tight enough that you chose to manually fold the mirrors before parking, isn't it likely that you'd want to keep them folded when backing out? Or, more to the point, wouldn't you want to be able to have the --option-- to, in some situations, unfold them if the situation allows, but leave them folded when it doesn't?

    If you did not manually fold the mirrors when parking, and just let the regular auto-fold take care of it, then the regular auto-fold would still take care of it when you back out.

    The 25 MPH unfold is only for people who forget to unfold a manual fold. And again, Tesla already has this described in the manual, though I don't believe it is working.

    - - - Updated - - -

    People in the situation you will be in after making this change are the people I was thinking of that would select the second option in the poll.

    I go back and forth between thinking I should do what Cyclone does and you will be doing. I keep leaning towards not making the switch because a) I really want my mirrors folded in parking lots, and fear I'd forget, and b) I'm pretty good about remembering to refold before pulling out of the garage. It's a little bit of a pain, but I do remember. What I am most likely to forget is the unfold after backing out, because I also have to close the garage, and maneuver a bit in my driveway. Switching wouldn't help that, and in fact would make it more likely that I forget to unfold at other times. So I stick with the current set up, and just hope Tesla will implement this suggestion, which I really still believe, in spite of the votes cast in the last category, would actually help a lot of people and change nothing for others.
     
  5. f-stop

    f-stop Active Member

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    the way I look at this is a) there is no situation I can think of where I leave my car and DON'T want my mirrors folded in. so the existing auto-fold/auto-unfold feature is convenient for this, but b) there are some situations where I want the mirrors folded in before stopping the car and to stay folded in to avoid some sort of hazard. When I return to my car later, the simple act of getting into my car (which currently unfolds my mirrors) doesn't mean that the hazard has gone away - so in such case it would be preferred if the mirrors stay folded until I specifically unfold them myself, or have driven away from that location. I think that's what the proposed change attempts to solve. Of course another way is to turn off auto-fold and always manually fold the mirrors, but with some loss of convenience

    If I understand correctly, the OP's proposed change would have no effect on your usage is you never manually fold in the mirrors, whether you use the existing auto-fold feature or not.
     
  6. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    So... does your change imply that I can no longer fold my mirrors to reduce the cd (and improve my range) while I'm napping and AP is driving?

    Bummer...
     
  7. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    Yes, f-stop, you understand everything correctly. I'm just not sure why you quoted my post. I'm the OP. The part of my post you quoted was just me discussing why I, in my mind, go back and forth between keeping auto-folding mirrors enabled, and not enabling them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Aside from the fact that you're obviously joking, it's not clear to me that drag is reduced with the mirrors folded in. I've often wondered about this, at those times when I've found I've driven a ways with my mirrors still folded. I've seen people here make the argument that Tesla designed the mirrors such that wind-resistance is lower when they are in the extended position, and that driving with the mirrors folded might actually increase drag and decrease efficiency.
     
  8. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    I don't know about the S, but the Honda Fit has bulbous headlights that make you wonder why they aren't smooth to reduce drag until you realize the disturbance those create make the air flow smoother over the rear view mirrors and thus, overall the drag is less than if the headlights were smooth and the wind hit the mirrors. I wonder if such a calculation was made for the mirrors and thus, absent their removal, they are most efficient extended with the curved surface facing forward.
     
  9. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    I went outside and looked at my mirrors. While the surface area contact is smaller, it's not as smooth of a transition, so yeah, likely nothing will change or might be worse.
     
  10. MikeBur

    MikeBur ManualPilot

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    Like the original idea, as I understand it of "don't unfold my mirrors automatically if I manually folded them in", modulo 25mph.

    Also liked the idea of tying to homelink. As another thought, rather than homelink, perhaps this could be tied to location using gps. In the same way that air suspension, when manually set, returns to that setting whenever car is in same location? Not thinking to do this while driving, rather tagging when I want mirrors to NOT auto unfold if I manually folded them in a certain location, i.e. Parking structure for work, etc?
     
  11. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    Excellent!

    I'm still struggling to understand what, if anything, we're missing with respect to why some people (13 at this point) would be answering the poll saying they'd be opposed to the suggestion. Until one of them explains their position, I remain convinced that all 13 of those people did not understand what was being proposed.


    There's no question that there are better, "sexier" ways to improve the mirror folding and unfolding in Model S. It's just that though I'm not a programmer, I have to think that involving GPS or Homelink in the process would mean significantly more programming, and would take this to a whole different level. I'm in no way against Tesla going that far if they are willing. But since we have no indication of that, I'm suggesting something that should be fairly simple, and thus provides huge bang for the buck, in that it makes the current system a heck of a lot better, and requires very little of Tesla from a resource standpoint.
     
  12. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    I confirmed today that my mirrors definitely do not unfold on their own at 25 MPH. In fact if there is a speed at which they unfold on their own at, it must be above 50 MPH. (I think they simply do not do this, in spite of what the manual says.)

    Can a few other people please confirm that your car's mirrors behave the same way? I'll then let Tesla know that the cars are not behaving as the manual says they will. Perhaps when a software engineer digs into that issue, he or she may be given permission to get involved with my suggested improvement as well.

    Here is what the manual has to say about the automatic unfolding at 25 MPH:

    --
    Note: If mirrrors are folded, they automatically unfold when your driving speed exceeds 25 mph (40 km/h). In addition, you can not fold a mirror when exceeding this speed.
    --
     
  13. CTShore

    CTShore Supporting Member

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    I fold mine to drive up to the bank window. Never have they unfolded automatically. Thought the car might have a setting off somewhere. Sounds like others have the same issue.
     
  14. f-stop

    f-stop Active Member

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    I just tested this on my 70D - I also confirm the mirrors do not unfold by themselves when you reach 40km/hr (25mph) as specified in the owner's manual. I even increased speed to just over 50km/hr (>30mph) and they still did not unfold, until I manually unfolded them.
     
  15. cytranic

    cytranic Member

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    How are you pulling into a garage so tight that the mirrors need to be folded, and you're able to exit the car? Do you climb out of the sunroof? Serious questions..
     
  16. f-stop

    f-stop Active Member

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    #36 f-stop, Dec 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    not sure if the question is directed at me, but anyhow in my case there IS enough room to comfortably open the car door once inside the garage (though I still need to be careful not to bang the door against the exposed wall stud), but it's the narrow garage door opening that is the problem.

    But at least my garage isn't as tight as this guy's - good thing he doesn't have a Model S:)
     
  17. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Supporting Member

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    In my case it's a two car garage. There is space between the doors of the garage. The garage is also wider than the garage door opening, so the fact that it is a two-car garage is probably irrelevant. Anyone who has a garage that is wider than the garage door would be in the same situation, and would have plenty of room to get in and out of the car, but might prefer to fold the mirrors to have more clearance when maneuvering through the more narrow garage door opening.
     
  18. Whitmarsh

    Whitmarsh Member

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    I haven't got my car yet (being delivered next Thu) but I was alarmed to read this in the manual. I want to be in control of the mirrors at all times; I do not want anyone dictating when they do or do not fold in or out. I live in area where the roads are often not wide enough for cars to pass each other if both have their mirrors out, so we don't unfold them until we are on wider roads. We certainly do not want them to unfold at 25mph (or any other arbitrary speed). So if they don't do what the manual says that's fine; I just hope Tesla doesn't 'fix the problem'!
     
  19. ChadFeldheimer

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    I park in a parking garage with narrow parking spaces. My parking spot has a large concrete column at one rear corner. The concrete column ensures generous spacing between parked cars, but the spacing is tight where there is no column separating adjacent parking spaces.

    While parking the car, I approach the column closely in order to leave sufficient spacing to my parking spot neighbors. Otherwise, I have to place my car door against my parking spot neighbor's car to be able to enter/exit the car - and my neighbor would have to do the same.

    I have yet to have to crawl out the sunroof or the hatch - but I'll keep that in mind =)
     
  20. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    My house is like Andy's - a 2-car a garage with individual doors.
    7CP8wXc.jpg

    With either car, the passenger must get out before I pull in. Both driver doors can be open without issue. When one car is not home and the Honda Fit parks in the garage, there is then enough space for driver and passenger to wait to get out until they are in the garage.
     

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