Summon

[ngogas]

I was at the dr office and did advanced summon. That was nice. I was able to walk but thought why the hell not. I can see it being useful if you are immobile.

 

[Knightshade]

No they didn't. Watch the video carefully. Very controlled intersections

Tesla releases new self-driving demo with new Autopilot graphics

Go to 1:12 in the video.

Tesla comes off the exit ramp to.... a 4 way stop. And handles it fine.

Jump to 1:31.... Tesla comes to... a 4 way stop... and handles it fine.

At 1:37 it does another 4 way intersection (though it might only be a 2-way stop for the Tesla and opposing lane) and handles it fine

At 1:42- another 4 way stop the Tesla handles fine.


So...yes- they demoed the car handling 4 way stops in the video- multiple times.

You can see where cross-traffic cars would be at the stop signs right out the windshield (since, not being in the middle of the intersection when stopped, they're more at 10/2 or 11/1 than 9/3) so the cars cameras would certainly see them as well (possibly radar too but that's unclear- maybe verygreen can clarify that)

 

[McFlurri]

Tesla releases new self-driving demo with new Autopilot graphics

Go to 1:12 in the video.

Tesla comes off the exit ramp to.... a 4 way stop. And handles it fine.

Jump to 1:31.... Tesla comes to... a 4 way stop... and handles it fine.

At 1:37 it does another 4 way intersection (though it might only be a 2-way stop for the Tesla and opposing lane) and handles it fine

At 1:42- another 4 way stop the Tesla handles fine.


So...yes- they demoed the car handling 4 way stops in the video- multiple times.

You can see where cross-traffic cars would be at the stop signs right out the windshield (since, not being in the middle of the intersection when stopped, they're more at 10/2 or 11/1 than 9/3) so the cars cameras would certainly see them as well (possibly radar too but that's unclear- maybe verygreen can clarify that)

THIS

 

[dww12]

The car doesn't have sensor coverage to be able to do this- software can't fix that.

Hence why I expect the car will always back into spots-(indeed, this is what auto park does today)- since the front sensors are a more robust suite than the rear.

Ok, I was thinking some 3d secret sauce, but it looks like the rear part of this map is lacking detail. Should start at 2:18:40.

 

[forkee]

I think Tesla is going to regret the day they release advance summon.

The internet is going to break with videos of confused cars clogging up parking lots and embarrassed owners running to rescue them.

Pulling the car in and out of a spot is entertaining. The car driving across a parking lot will be a disaster.

completely agree with this. summoning the car out of a spot can be frustrating enough to the point it gives up, just can't imagine it handling the infinite variables of moving objects to identify and categorize safety risks to navigate just to get through. it would most certainly never make it across a costco parking lot.

How are they going to have Full self Driving cars but not cars that will drive through a parking lot? Don't you think That'll be easier than FSD?

FSD through designated, thus higher predictable, lanes such as the freeway will always be easier than free range parking lots. freeway is the easiest (which was why it was enable first with NOA); all cars are predicted to be traveling the same direction, mainly monitoring for distance between cars and position in lanes. next step is unlocking autopilot on streets which is currently half working; the software knows the rules of the road and applies it to the car, as well as cross references it with other vehicles and objects to safety maneuver the road. definitely more points to monitor and keep tabs on, especially people, bikes, obstacles. more processing power is great, but what is going to be crucial is the ability to predict safety risks with each identified object and navigate through it. I imagine crossing a parking lot would be hell for the computer to process; there are unlimited obstacles to keep an eye on that could change at any moment, cars pulling out or even driving directly at you, runaway carts or children, people stealing spots while you are already pulling into one, too small to identify objects that might have fallen off a cart that will get run over, etc. look up the famous "trolley problem" to see the ethical dilemma humans have with choices and consequences; then see how it is impossible for a computer to do the same.

Tesla releases new self-driving demo with new Autopilot graphics

Go to 1:12 in the video.

Tesla comes off the exit ramp to.... a 4 way stop. And handles it fine.

Jump to 1:31.... Tesla comes to... a 4 way stop... and handles it fine.

At 1:37 it does another 4 way intersection (though it might only be a 2-way stop for the Tesla and opposing lane) and handles it fine

At 1:42- another 4 way stop the Tesla handles fine.


So...yes- they demoed the car handling 4 way stops in the video- multiple times.

You can see where cross-traffic cars would be at the stop signs right out the windshield (since, not being in the middle of the intersection when stopped, they're more at 10/2 or 11/1 than 9/3) so the cars cameras would certainly see them as well (possibly radar too but that's unclear- maybe verygreen can clarify that)

well of course they are going to release a video of it handling the roads perfectly, they aren't going to show it choking and giving up control to the driver. i would be more interested in multiple consistent "FTW" runs that would solidify it's capabilities.

i believe that when the day finally does come for full self driving, people will go nuts and foolishly relinquish all responsibility. cars will crash and people will get hurt.

 

[Matt L]

Tesla releases new self-driving demo with new Autopilot graphics

Go to 1:12 in the video.

Tesla comes off the exit ramp to.... a 4 way stop. And handles it fine.

Jump to 1:31.... Tesla comes to... a 4 way stop... and handles it fine.

At 1:37 it does another 4 way intersection (though it might only be a 2-way stop for the Tesla and opposing lane) and handles it fine

At 1:42- another 4 way stop the Tesla handles fine.


So...yes- they demoed the car handling 4 way stops in the video- multiple times.

You can see where cross-traffic cars would be at the stop signs right out the windshield (since, not being in the middle of the intersection when stopped, they're more at 10/2 or 11/1 than 9/3) so the cars cameras would certainly see them as well (possibly radar too but that's unclear- maybe verygreen can clarify that)[/QUOTE

Lol, ok. There were no other cars there.

I’m confident that it can stop at an intersection and then go. It has no ability to see if a car is 50-100 feet left or right...and a four way stop is easy. How would it do at a two way stop when it needs to turn left across two lanes of traffic? How would it’s see a car 200-300 feet left that’s not going to stop?

I’m a big Tesla fan and I’m likely as underwater as most on TSLA...but we have to be realistic here. I’m glad Elon is pushing on this, but without a reconfiguration of the side cameras, this is a major issue.

 

[Knightshade]

You messed up the quotes there but here's the relevant bits of what you said-

I’m confident that it can stop at an intersection and then go. It has no ability to see if a car is 50-100 feet left or right...and a four way stop is easy. How would it do at a two way stop when it needs to turn left across two lanes of traffic? How would it’s see a car 200-300 feet left that’s not going to stop?

The sensor specs say the forward looking wide camera can see ~500 feet, the forward looking side cameras ~263 feet, and the radar ~550 feet... So seeing a car 200, or even 250, feet away is already within existing specs even far to the side of the car.

So your claim it can't see a car 50-100 left or right is simply not remotely factual.

 

[ceekz]

Is advanced summon really a big deal? How hard is it to walk from the store or restaurant to your car? It seems more like a party trick to me than anything that will be particularly useful. You will use it a few times to show off to friends and then realize it’s silly to wait around for it to drive at 2mph around a parking lot trying to find you.

yes, but what a fun party trick!

 

[OCR1]

The car doesn't have sensor coverage to be able to do this- software can't fix that.

Hence why I expect the car will always back into spots-(indeed, this is what auto park does today)- since the front sensors are a more robust suite than the rear.

I’m still not following how this will work. The car doesn’t have rear cross traffic alert so it can’t back out of a parking space. But instead it’s going to back into a parking space and just hope that while it’s doing so that cross traffic is not approaching from the rear and assuming that the car is going to stop and wait for the traffic to pass? Whether the car has blind spots in the front or rear at some point it’s going to have blind spots whether it’s pulling in forward or backward.

And let’s say you take it to Costco on the weekend when everyone is jamming the aisles trying to find a space. Everyone is going to come to a standstill while the Tesla attempts to maneuver backing into a parking space in a severely congested parking lot. I just don’t see that happening. Maybe a giant parking lot that is half empty but not a crowded parking lot with impatient people fighting for limited spots.

 

[Matt L]

You messed up the quotes there but here's the relevant bits of what you said-




The sensor specs say the forward looking wide camera can see ~500 feet, the forward looking side cameras ~263 feet, and the radar ~550 feet... So seeing a car 200, or even 250, feet away is already within existing specs even far to the side of the car.

So your claim it can't see a car 50-100 left or right is simply not remotely factual.

The cameras aren’t pointed that way. That’s the point. There is no sideways facing cameras.

 

[Matt L]

I’m still not following how this will work. The car doesn’t have rear cross traffic alert so it can’t back out of a parking space. But instead it’s going to back into a parking space and just hope that while it’s doing so that cross traffic is not approaching from the rear and assuming that the car is going to stop and wait for the traffic to pass? Whether the car has blind spots in the front or rear at some point it’s going to have blind spots whether it’s pulling in forward or backward.

And let’s say you take it to Costco on the weekend when everyone is jamming the aisles trying to find a space. Everyone is going to come to a standstill while the Tesla attempts to maneuver backing into a parking space in a severely congested parking lot. I just don’t see that happening. Maybe a giant parking lot that is half empty but not a crowded parking lot with impatient people fighting for limited spots.

It seems very obvious to me.

 

[Knightshade]

I’m still not following how this will work. The car doesn’t have rear cross traffic alert so it can’t back out of a parking space. But instead it’s going to back into a parking space and just hope that while it’s doing so that cross traffic is not approaching from the rear and assuming that the car is going to stop and wait for the traffic to pass?

You don't seem to be picturing this correctly.

When a car is going to back into a spot it starts 90 degrees from the spot.

Meaning it has full view of traffic in front and behind, there is no "cross traffic" at all since it's just parking spots. Worst you'd have is someone pulling out of one at very low speed, which the cameras can see.

So the current sensor suite is fine for that. Again that's what the car already does right now for auto-park with no issues.

Whether the car has blind spots in the front or rear at some point it’s going to have blind spots whether it’s pulling in forward or backward.

Nope. Because doing it one way there's actual traffic at speed on its sides when backing up...the other there's never anything but parking spaces on its sides when backing up.

And let’s say you take it to Costco on the weekend when everyone is jamming the aisles trying to find a space. Everyone is going to come to a standstill while the Tesla attempts to maneuver backing into a parking space in a severely congested parking lot. I just don’t see that happening. .

Again, this is what the Tesla already does today when using auto park. It always backs into a spot, not forward.

Which means it's already set up to be able to pull out safely seeing cross-traffic for advance summon.

But if that's too slow you can always manually back it in too which is faster and puts you in the same, safer, "pull forward to leave the spot" position to use advanced summon later.


Where you will potentially have an issue is if people manually pull into the spot forward to park... and then try and use auto-summon to back out.

 

[Knightshade]

The cameras aren’t pointed that way. That’s the point. There is no sideways facing cameras.

Except, there are.

4 of them. 2 forward and 2 side/back- the front fenders and B pillars respectively.

 

[Matt L]

Except, there are.

4 of them. 2 forward and 2 side/back- the front fenders and B pillars respectively.

I’ll try this again...they do not pick up the 3 and 9 o’clock position. They face forward and rear at ~30deg angles and are designed to pick up cars in the adjacent lane.

 

[Matt L]

You don't seem to be picturing this correctly.

When a car is going to back into a spot it starts 90 degrees from the spot.

Meaning it has full view of traffic in front and behind, there is no "cross traffic" at all since it's just parking spots. Worst you'd have is someone pulling out of one at very low speed, which the cameras can see.

So the current sensor suite is fine for that. Again that's what the car already does right now for auto-park with no issues.




Nope. Because doing it one way there's actual traffic at speed on its sides when backing up...the other there's never anything but parking spaces on its sides when backing up.




Again, this is what the Tesla already does today when using auto park. It always backs into a spot, not forward.

Which means it's already set up to be able to pull out safely seeing cross-traffic for advance summon.

But if that's too slow you can always manually back it in too which is faster and puts you in the same, safer, "pull forward to leave the spot" position to use advanced summon later.


Where you will potentially have an issue is if people manually pull into the spot forward to park... and then try and use auto-summon to back out.

So if you pull in forward, like most people, then advanced summon later isn’t an option?

This will be a disaster

 

[jamnmon66]

We're only seeing one of the 3 front cameras on dashcam videos, etc. Presumably at least one of them is a very wide angle lens. I'm getting to the point that I rarely look over my shoulder when backing, even in a parking lot, because the view is better from the wide-angle rear-view camera. If I picked up his vibe correctly, Elon is convinced that the NN will be able to essentially handle all driving functions in all conditions with cameras supported from the radar & ultrasonic once the software is complete.

There's a lot of (on the surface) sound arguments about what can't be done in this thread that are based on assumptions & incomplete information. With the forward thinking extreme detail that's been put into the tech of this car, I have a hard time believing that the sensors can't handle cross traffic, even in parking lots. The extremely hard part is getting the AI working with a high enough level of reliability.

I'd almost always bet against Elon in meeting timelines. But I'd have a hard time betting against him eventually figuring out FSD since this seems to have been the plan from the beginning. This is the same guy that figured out how to land & reuse rockets after all.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

forward thinking extreme detail that's been put into the tech of this car, I have a hard time believing that the sensors can't handle cross traffic, even in parking lots

When moving forward, possibly what it has will be good enough (depends primarily on the radar capabilities). But assuming the Owner's Manual properly describes all the sensors and is not failing to mention some, there simply are not enough sensors in the rear to develop a good enough picture for the case of backing up. There isn't any amount of forward thinking that can change that.

 

[OCR1]

So if you pull in forward, like most people, then advanced summon later isn’t an option?

This will be a disaster

It’s laughable. By the time my Tesla gets into the perfect position to begin backing into a spot, someone else will have already cut in front of it and nabbed the spot.

This may work at some point on a very non crowded parking lot with virtually no traffic around. But that’s about as much as I’d bet on it having any time in the near future.

 

[Knightshade]

I’ll try this again...they do not pick up the 3 and 9 o’clock position.

I mean- they do though. Check out the videos of what the cameras see. Or look at the diagram of the sensor coverage.

They face forward and rear at ~30deg angles and are designed to pick up cars in the adjacent lane.

The cameras offer 360 degree coverage around the car.

The forward looking side cams absolutely see at 3 and 9 o'clock Again see diagram above.

 

[run-the-joules]

So if you pull in forward, like most people, then advanced summon later isn’t an option?

This will be a disaster

Most people sit in the left lane even when not passing.

Most people pull forward into parking spots.

Most people don't know how to follow at an appropriate distance.

In short, "most people" are bloody idiots and I hope I'm alive to see the day where "most people" stop driving and autonomous vehicles are the norm.