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Sun Country to partner with ABB for high powered chargers

Discussion in 'Canada' started by mnx, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    Sun Country Highway Announces Partnership with ABB

    "SCH has already strategically deployed hundreds of the highest speed level two charging stations across Canada, but aims to further reduce barriers to EV adoption by adding 400 volt direct current (DC) charging products from ABB. “We plan to move ahead with 20 or more installations this year”, added Misch. Quick charging is well known to help EV owners get farther more quickly, while also minimizing range concerns that potential and future EV drivers may have when making a decision about purchasing an electric vehicle. "

    Awesome!
     
  2. Morristhecat

    Morristhecat Member

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    #2 Morristhecat, Feb 19, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
    They note in the article that this DC charger is compatible with Tesla Model S. I wonder how so? Are they assuming we will all have the yet to be released CHAdeMO adapter, or that there will be an easier SAE Combo adapter in the future? Or will there be a Tesla plug on it???
     
  3. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    The text of the press release and the provided picture indicate strongly that there will be two cables: a CHAdeMO and an SAE combo. My first read, then, is that those of us with Model Ss will have to be acquiring that CHAdeMO adapter.

    Which is expensive, and is of course layered atop the already hefty but understandable sum we've paid up front for those Forever Free Superchargers, but I'll not complain. Most especially not if SCH hurries up and strings its network as far as Whitehorse!

    Naah - don't stop there. As far as Haines Jct., or Beaver, or Dawson City!
     
  4. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    I received an e-mail this morning informing me of this partnership. It is indeed exciting news!

    For now I'll be playing it by ear to see where the 20 planned stations will be located. If they are nicely placed, I'll consider the CHAdeMO adapter or maybe wait for the (hopefully cheaper) SAE combo adapter.

    Given Tesla's limited Supercharger plans for Canada, this may be the only way to get significant level 3 charger coverage up here.
     
  5. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Holland America/Princess closed the Westmark in Beaver Creek and will fly tourists between Dawson City and Fairbanks. The Yukon's beautiful, but it's no fun when you're on a tour with little time to stop and enjoy it. There's still a motel in Beaver and it's on a highway so it makes sense for all-electric long distance driving.
     
  6. pairtrader

    pairtrader Member

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  7. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    No, they're referring to the CHADeMO adapter. The stations will be dual headed, both SAE and CHAdeMO. Someday Tesla might have an SAE DC adapter as well, but nothing planned at this point.
     
  8. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Sun Country is offering both dual head and Chademo only, I believe.
     
  9. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I'm going to beat the dead horse that is the SAE combo adapter and point out that there are zero vehicles that use it and that number is likely to stay zero for a long time.
     
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Spark EVs with the Combo plug option were shipped and delivered late last year and the i3 will also use it. So the number of cars using it definitely will not be zero, esp. in the CARB compliant states.
     
  11. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    #11 richkae, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
    703 Spark EVs in 9 months - some have the combo plug. So virtually zero in the US. None in Canada.
    Waiting with baited breath to see the i3 sell and how long it takes for it to come to Canada.
     
  12. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Well, "few" or "close to zero" would be an accurate term, but zero is not. Zero was true a couple of months ago, but not any longer. Same goes for the chargers.

    For the i3, the combo plug is optional, but that's par for the course for most DC connectors (CHAdeMO is also optional on the Leaf). DC is only standard on the iMIEV AFAIK.
     
  13. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Sure. I'll go with "close to zero".
    I bet that if/when these chargers get installed the SAE DC plug is "almost never" used for the first couple years.
    Even if Tesla makes an SAE DC adapter, and it was half the price of the CHAdeMO one, I will probably buy the CHAdeMO one because it will be usable more places and I am sure most others will as well.
    So if I visit one of those, I would end up using the CHAdeMO plug and ignoring the SAE plug.
     
  14. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    MMMMhh... interesting commentary here. I hope the Canadians on this thread are able to communicate these concerns to SCH/ABB.
     
  15. djp

    djp Roadster 2.0 VIN939

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    Not sure there's a SCH concern here. The cost of a dual-head station will be marginally more than CHAdeMO-only. Most of the cost is in the transformers and install, not the connector, so there's no harm in having both. It would be great if the industry got its act together an adopted a single standard for DC charging (ideally Tesla's) but that's not going to happen any time soon. At least it's possible to build adapters between the connector types, which means all can co-exist.
     
  16. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Hopefully at some point in the future it will be easy to take the stations that are dual CHAdeMO and SAE and cut off the useless SAE connector and put a Tesla one in its place.

    Fine. Okay. They can keep it. Maybe at some point BMW i3's will outsell the Model S in Canada and people will road trip them hundreds of miles and it will be a relevant connector.
     
  17. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why the SAE connector bothers you so much that you don't even want to see it in place. I'd like to put a reminder that about 2 years ago, CHAdeMO was in the exact same situation: few cars that could use it and even fewer chargers. Even Nissan and the CHAdeMO organization itself support dual head chargers as the way forward.

    As for the adapter option, if it costs half the cost (or less) to do exactly the same thing, I don't see why there's a need to go with a CHAdeMO adapter. In fact, I think it would benefit most people if most/all chargers are dual chargers and the DC adapter was cheap enough to be included with the car or as a low cost option.

    As for adding a Tesla connector, I don't see it happening anytime soon, as Tesla has made no effort so far to make their connector an actual standard, so no other charger manufacturer can use it.
     
  18. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    It's not that I don't want to see it in place. I just think it is incredibly weird for these stations to be deployed when no vehicles exist in Canada that can use that connector.
    I believe that BMW plans to actually sell cars, and they might. But it still seems weird for any money to be spent to support cars that don't yet exist.

    I also think its weird that when I look at those stations that are supposedly electrically compatible with my Tesla ( the SAE connector ) but even if an adapter existed, I won't bother buying one because the CHAdeMO one is superior due to the fact that there are already hundreds of CHAdeMO stations.
    So I think SCH is going to be taking a gamble that the SAE connectors have value, and that they may be wasting their money.

    I was against public money being spent to deploy CHAdeMO two years ago. I wouldn't have donated my money to do it either. I would have been perfectly happy for Nissan to get a tax incentive to spend their own money to deploy CHAdeMO.
    I like SCH, and don't like the idea of money I donate being wasted.
    IMO Nissan should be spending their own money to deploy CHAdeMO and BMW should be spending their own money to deploy SAE.

    If I were king, I would implement a tax incentive to encourage the auto manufacturers to donate money to a group like SCH that allows them to stipulate that the money spent supports their cars.
    The tax incentive would be structured so that BMW/Nissan would get more if they gave it to SCH than if they did it themselves.
    My goal is to have a system where the manufacturers pay to make sure their cars are supported, but an independant SCH can deploy chargers and be funded.
    If you want to ride Nissan's coattails, you can sell a CHAdeMO car and contribute nothing and rely on them to do it. If you want your own plug that nobody else uses: you pay.
    It would somewhat diminish the first mover advantage you get bringing the first EVs to market, because followers can get away with paying less for infrastructure, but I think it is a tiny amount of money compared to the cars themselves.
     
  19. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    SCH is giving their customers the choice of what station they want to install - Chademo only or Chademo + SAE Combo. So none of their money is being wasted. It's up to their customers to decide.

    In 2010 when I got my Roadster there were something like two or three J1772 charge stations in Canada. SCH fixed that chicken-and-egg problem and now there is a nationwide network. Absolutely no doubt that SCH had a substantial impact on the adoption of Tesla Model S in Canada.

    Now we're in the same position with the combo plug. Worse, we have a Beta / VHS kind of situation here. Ultimately combo is probably a better solution; technically Chademo is kinda quirky. But Chademo was out first, so it might end up dominating anyway. As you will recall, VHS won the war despite being inferior. How the companies handled marketing and distribution was ultimately more important than having higher quality longer playing tapes.

    Both of these plugs are huge and butt-ugly. Maybe someday we'll have something more like the Tesla plug out there... but once a standard is in place it's pretty tough to change things. After all, we're still using QWERTY keyboards, even though they were originally designed to slow down typists so they wouldn't go faster than the early typewriters could manage. Dvorak is way better but almost no one uses them.
     
  20. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    That sounds great.

    If I were BMW or GM and serious about EVs, I would call SCH and tell them that any time someone wants a CHADeMO only charger tell them they don't do that and they get dual for free and to just bill me.
     

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