I ordered an 8kw system with Tesla, which is scheduled to be installed in a month. Tesla's pricing blow its competitors out of the water. Since my order three weeks ago, I received several different calls from Sunrun. Obviously Sunrun reps tried their best to take shots at Tesla, including inferior products to crappy warranty to mediocre outsourced installers. After several calls with various reps, doubts are slowly seeping into my mind. Is there really such significant difference between these companies? In my mind, a solar panel is like a t-shirt - I don't really care the brand as long as it services its purpose.
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Sunrun vs Tesla
- Thread starter bhuang
- Start date
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
The equipment is all the ~same. The difference is in service. I don't know about Sunrun but there are a lot of 'horror' stories of people waiting on a Tesla tech for months to solve a really simple problem. You're paying $2/w for the install and the level of service appears to reflect that price.
Given those two specific companies, It seems to me like they are very similar in most ways, except sunrun still has a sales organization that is "supposed" to work with you.
Reading what @holeydonut seems to be going through with Sunrun, It seems similar to some stories of poor tesla service.
One specific thing I will say, however, is I am very very (very very) against "putting a competitor down" when trying to sell me something. That is almost instantly a ticket to me not doing business with you. Tell me why your product or service is great, and why I cant live without it. Dont tell me why someone elses is poor, or I shouldnt choose them.
The minute someone starts saying "you shouldnt choose X company because they....." when trying to sell me their competing product, they have lost both my interest and my respect.
There are nuances to it, of course. If someone says "well we use a tailored approach to each client, while some of our competitors use a more big box style" (for example) I am totally fine with that. If someone says "You are thinking about going with Tesla? Man they suck, I hear they dont help you at all., and their warranties suck too", its pretty much "thanks for your time but I am moving in another direction" from me.
So, OP, if those sun run people are calling you up and "working on you" about how bad tesla is, thats how I would treat it if it were me. They should be telling you how they will take care of you, and why they are worth the extra money they likely cost.
Reading what @holeydonut seems to be going through with Sunrun, It seems similar to some stories of poor tesla service.
One specific thing I will say, however, is I am very very (very very) against "putting a competitor down" when trying to sell me something. That is almost instantly a ticket to me not doing business with you. Tell me why your product or service is great, and why I cant live without it. Dont tell me why someone elses is poor, or I shouldnt choose them.
The minute someone starts saying "you shouldnt choose X company because they....." when trying to sell me their competing product, they have lost both my interest and my respect.
There are nuances to it, of course. If someone says "well we use a tailored approach to each client, while some of our competitors use a more big box style" (for example) I am totally fine with that. If someone says "You are thinking about going with Tesla? Man they suck, I hear they dont help you at all., and their warranties suck too", its pretty much "thanks for your time but I am moving in another direction" from me.
So, OP, if those sun run people are calling you up and "working on you" about how bad tesla is, thats how I would treat it if it were me. They should be telling you how they will take care of you, and why they are worth the extra money they likely cost.
There actually is a difference in what certain companies use. anything from the way a panel looks to the way a panel performs. The efficiency of the panels, many different variables The number one thing here that you should look at is the talking down about the company or the competing product. I am a Solar salesman that knows both companies very well. I work for neither company but i would not bash either one and if one company feels the need to bash another companies product, then it really says something about the character of those people. Do you want to deal with people or companies like that.
I'm in the middle of a long, protracted purchase with Sunrun (also 8 kWp) but with 3 Powerwalls.
Pros with Sunrun: I felt their sales process really helped me to learn what was unique about my house and try to get the right solar racking and system. For example, I have a concrete tile roof, and Sunrun sent out someone to inspect the tiles, underlayment, and general roof stuff BEFORE a permanent contract was signed. They helped me to understand my situation with all my skylights, somewhat steep grade, and second story vaulted ceiling (no attic). Sunrun was also the only local installer willing to do stand-off mounts with a triple-course flashing method (top flashing, bottom flashing, and tar) instead of tile hooks. They also assessed that my main service panel was inadequate, and Sunrun absorbed the upgrade into their cost instead of showing it as a line-item extra like everyone else. Sunrun also has a bunch of Powerwalls and Gateway 2s in their East-Bay warehouse.
Cons with Sunrun: The Powerwall design side was a complete *sugar*-show. I think Sunrun just got into the Powerwall game and they knew almost nothing about the Powerwall 2 or Energy Gateway 2. Sunrun tried to configure the Powewalls in the same way they sold their old Brightbox (LG Chem) systems. I'm so glad I found this forum and @Vines who helped me get the design right. Sunrun literally said they didn't think the proposal would work; but ultimately acknowledged they didn't know the full feature-set of the Gateway 2. Sunrun's good sales-feelings also evaporated after sales handed off my install to Ops/Production. The PM on the production side isn't out here in California. So she may be friendly but has no visibility into permitting, design, utility approval, etc. So progress on my installation basically died between August thru October. I had to take it upon myself to unblock an issue with PG&E since Sunrun was spinning in circles about it.
Anyway, Sunrun has put a local manger on my account to PM this through to completion. It's a night and day difference now that someone actually knows what is happening and can communicate results. I'm back to being happy-ish about things after rattling the cage a bit.
In summary, I don't think Tesla or Sunrun will be much different. Sunrun has some pros and cons, but they aren't going to make you regret buying from Tesla. They're both large scale corporates and will try to make a profit somehow. Tesla makes to make money through aggressive cost cutting; and Sunrun reported negative EPS the last two quarters so I don't think they make money. Tesla wouldn't even do an installation on my house because they deemed it "too difficult"
If I had to do this over again, I'd ignore the low-cost carrot dangled by Sunrun and Tesla; and instead go with a local/reputable PV installer. Then ping @Vines to get the Powerwalls. That way I'd have saved countless headaches.
PS: Sunrun will process the California SGIP rebate on large-scale installations (3x Powerwall or more). So on the Powerwall side, Tesla may cost more up front, but Sunrun may be cheaper since Tesla adamantly refuses to help customers to participate in the large-scale program.
Pros with Sunrun: I felt their sales process really helped me to learn what was unique about my house and try to get the right solar racking and system. For example, I have a concrete tile roof, and Sunrun sent out someone to inspect the tiles, underlayment, and general roof stuff BEFORE a permanent contract was signed. They helped me to understand my situation with all my skylights, somewhat steep grade, and second story vaulted ceiling (no attic). Sunrun was also the only local installer willing to do stand-off mounts with a triple-course flashing method (top flashing, bottom flashing, and tar) instead of tile hooks. They also assessed that my main service panel was inadequate, and Sunrun absorbed the upgrade into their cost instead of showing it as a line-item extra like everyone else. Sunrun also has a bunch of Powerwalls and Gateway 2s in their East-Bay warehouse.
Cons with Sunrun: The Powerwall design side was a complete *sugar*-show. I think Sunrun just got into the Powerwall game and they knew almost nothing about the Powerwall 2 or Energy Gateway 2. Sunrun tried to configure the Powewalls in the same way they sold their old Brightbox (LG Chem) systems. I'm so glad I found this forum and @Vines who helped me get the design right. Sunrun literally said they didn't think the proposal would work; but ultimately acknowledged they didn't know the full feature-set of the Gateway 2. Sunrun's good sales-feelings also evaporated after sales handed off my install to Ops/Production. The PM on the production side isn't out here in California. So she may be friendly but has no visibility into permitting, design, utility approval, etc. So progress on my installation basically died between August thru October. I had to take it upon myself to unblock an issue with PG&E since Sunrun was spinning in circles about it.
Anyway, Sunrun has put a local manger on my account to PM this through to completion. It's a night and day difference now that someone actually knows what is happening and can communicate results. I'm back to being happy-ish about things after rattling the cage a bit.
In summary, I don't think Tesla or Sunrun will be much different. Sunrun has some pros and cons, but they aren't going to make you regret buying from Tesla. They're both large scale corporates and will try to make a profit somehow. Tesla makes to make money through aggressive cost cutting; and Sunrun reported negative EPS the last two quarters so I don't think they make money. Tesla wouldn't even do an installation on my house because they deemed it "too difficult"
If I had to do this over again, I'd ignore the low-cost carrot dangled by Sunrun and Tesla; and instead go with a local/reputable PV installer. Then ping @Vines to get the Powerwalls. That way I'd have saved countless headaches.
PS: Sunrun will process the California SGIP rebate on large-scale installations (3x Powerwall or more). So on the Powerwall side, Tesla may cost more up front, but Sunrun may be cheaper since Tesla adamantly refuses to help customers to participate in the large-scale program.
charlesj
Active Member
I've been into solar for a long time, had my first system installed 19 years ago. I've generally not pushed it too hard to my friends and family. They know I'm here if they are curious.
I've recently changed my tune. I'm actively pitching to them Tesla solar. I tell them you're going to be hard pressed to beat the price. The sales process is boiler plate but if they want hand holding I'll be there for them. Basically I explain to them how they're getting a such great price, if they're good with the trade off then yay. If not there are other options. I also offer to donate the referral credit to a charity of their choice. My other reason for urgency is I think there will be a little bit of roll back coming with unfavorable net metering rules so it's good to get at a local minima.
I've think I've tried most of the solar acquisition approaches over the years. I purchased my first two (company long gone, had to deal with BP warranty and inverter failures myself), I leased my second one, SolarCity dealt with an inverter recall and credited for the months it was out. (I predict I will be able to get this one for next nothing at the end of the lease because Tesla is obligated to remove it and given the prices they're quoting for removal). I did prepaid power purchase, replacing the BP failed system (I predict the same story at the end). Bought a an investment property with an existing solar lease (got the purchase price *discounted* by the difference in the cost of new cheaper solar versus the existing lease). The investment property shouldn't have had solar installed on it, the underlayment on it was shot, I had to get it redone. Fortunately this was the during the era when SolarCity had a flat rate $500 to remove *and* reinstall solar. They originally couldn't schedule me months but they ended up contracting with 3rd party to do the work. I'm sure it cost them more than $500. These are gone from today's contracts but I'm ok with that given if I know it up front and the product/service is priced accordingly. I was researching solar for a friend and I ended up ordering a new (will be an addition) Tesla solar purchase order for me. I'm hard pressed buy parts at price Tesla is selling installed solar.
I think the $100 non-refundable fee is clever. It's reducing the number of leads they're getting but the quality is much higher.
Yeah, it's a t-shirt at this point.
I've recently changed my tune. I'm actively pitching to them Tesla solar. I tell them you're going to be hard pressed to beat the price. The sales process is boiler plate but if they want hand holding I'll be there for them. Basically I explain to them how they're getting a such great price, if they're good with the trade off then yay. If not there are other options. I also offer to donate the referral credit to a charity of their choice. My other reason for urgency is I think there will be a little bit of roll back coming with unfavorable net metering rules so it's good to get at a local minima.
I've think I've tried most of the solar acquisition approaches over the years. I purchased my first two (company long gone, had to deal with BP warranty and inverter failures myself), I leased my second one, SolarCity dealt with an inverter recall and credited for the months it was out. (I predict I will be able to get this one for next nothing at the end of the lease because Tesla is obligated to remove it and given the prices they're quoting for removal). I did prepaid power purchase, replacing the BP failed system (I predict the same story at the end). Bought a an investment property with an existing solar lease (got the purchase price *discounted* by the difference in the cost of new cheaper solar versus the existing lease). The investment property shouldn't have had solar installed on it, the underlayment on it was shot, I had to get it redone. Fortunately this was the during the era when SolarCity had a flat rate $500 to remove *and* reinstall solar. They originally couldn't schedule me months but they ended up contracting with 3rd party to do the work. I'm sure it cost them more than $500. These are gone from today's contracts but I'm ok with that given if I know it up front and the product/service is priced accordingly. I was researching solar for a friend and I ended up ordering a new (will be an addition) Tesla solar purchase order for me. I'm hard pressed buy parts at price Tesla is selling installed solar.
I think the $100 non-refundable fee is clever. It's reducing the number of leads they're getting but the quality is much higher.
Yeah, it's a t-shirt at this point.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I had some people ask me what brand of panel I preferred and I started explaining why I don't care... they got irritated because they thought I was dodging the question. It's a laminated piece of glass doped with a little boron and a little phosphorous. There's only so many ways to do that and they're all the ~same...
Yes, I just cannot believe how many threads have folks complaining about tesla. Well, they are getting what they paid for, and KNEW before they went forward. SO glad I am going with local folks. They may not be perfect but at least you can get a hold of them.
skepticcyclist
Member
They're one of the largest solar companies in the nation, so I would say it is very likely they will
skepticcyclist
Member
I went with Sunrun over Tesla for a few reasons:
1) At the time of my order Tesla was out of the PW (back ordered for a few months) and Sunrun still had them in stock
2) Sunrun used microinverters for each panel and Tesla designed used a single inverter with DC optimizers
3) The prices were close to the same at time (Tesla is probably less expensive now however)
4) I had an actual sales person I could speak with anytime (In fact, I have my salesperson cell and call him anytime I have a question. He immediately gets back to me)
5) At the time the financing was better with Sunrun using Loanpal. Now Tesla offers a loan for the same interest rate as Loanpal (2.99%)
Of course your experience could be different. I know people who used Sunrun and have a difficult time getting a hold of their salesperson or lead installer, while others have no issues at all
1) At the time of my order Tesla was out of the PW (back ordered for a few months) and Sunrun still had them in stock
2) Sunrun used microinverters for each panel and Tesla designed used a single inverter with DC optimizers
3) The prices were close to the same at time (Tesla is probably less expensive now however)
4) I had an actual sales person I could speak with anytime (In fact, I have my salesperson cell and call him anytime I have a question. He immediately gets back to me)
5) At the time the financing was better with Sunrun using Loanpal. Now Tesla offers a loan for the same interest rate as Loanpal (2.99%)
Of course your experience could be different. I know people who used Sunrun and have a difficult time getting a hold of their salesperson or lead installer, while others have no issues at all
I got quotation from both Sunrun and Tesla recently, the price difference is so big.
For Sunrun, 5.4kw system size (around 8300kwh annual production) costs me $19500.
For Tesla, 8.16kw system size (around 11500kwh annual production) costs me $16600.
You can see that, Tesla is $3000 cheaper but with 40% more energy generated.
Yeah, you should add in the Costco rebate in conjunction with Sunrun to make the math kind of work out between the two providers.
I'll post an image here of the 15%; since some people may think I'm blowing smoke on the 15%...
Also, keep in mind that Sunrun will usually do a new main service panel "for free" with their bid, while Tesla will up-charge like $4,000 for this if your home requires it. Sunrun will also do the more robust racking method while Tesla will tell you to pound sand if you don't want them to hastily slap panels on your roof. Sunrun will also use microinverters instead of large-inverters which may help you buffer against equipment failures that have a long turnaround time for warranty repair..
But Tesla will do the fancy skirts and dark-panels which looks nicer. And Tesla tends to paint the conduit runs while Sunrun leaves them as aluminum. Tesla is also not hated by PG&E, so if you go with Tesla you won't be part of the on-going war between Sunrun and the PoCo.
So it's worth making sure you have all the nickels and dimes in the pool before you outright discount one or the other as "too expensive."
Personally, if I had to do my system again, I'd go with a good local shop (admittedly it's very difficult to find these)... it's worth a bit of an over-pay to have the systems go in smoothly.
I'll post an image here of the 15%; since some people may think I'm blowing smoke on the 15%...
Also, keep in mind that Sunrun will usually do a new main service panel "for free" with their bid, while Tesla will up-charge like $4,000 for this if your home requires it. Sunrun will also do the more robust racking method while Tesla will tell you to pound sand if you don't want them to hastily slap panels on your roof. Sunrun will also use microinverters instead of large-inverters which may help you buffer against equipment failures that have a long turnaround time for warranty repair..
But Tesla will do the fancy skirts and dark-panels which looks nicer. And Tesla tends to paint the conduit runs while Sunrun leaves them as aluminum. Tesla is also not hated by PG&E, so if you go with Tesla you won't be part of the on-going war between Sunrun and the PoCo.
So it's worth making sure you have all the nickels and dimes in the pool before you outright discount one or the other as "too expensive."
Personally, if I had to do my system again, I'd go with a good local shop (admittedly it's very difficult to find these)... it's worth a bit of an over-pay to have the systems go in smoothly.
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You may want to do a little more research outside of this forum, a lot of people don't come here to praise Tesla when it comes to EV or solar, in fact they come here to complain. I have Tesla EV as well as solar roof + PW and love their products, but you need to know that customer service can be lacking depending on markets. I never had issue with customer service with my car though I never really needed customer service. My solar roof process was kind of slow and painful but eventually it got installed, up and running without much fanfare or issues, yes there were long delays here and there but I got what I want especially I understand a bit more about solar now. SunRun as well as SunPower are good companies though I think SunPower is more high-end. Did you place a deposit with Tesla? I found out that the initial energy production estimate in kWh with Tesla before placing the deposit is a very high-level estimate, after my deposit the annual production estimate in the purchase agreement dropped by 25%, that could be because they did a more detailed analysis of my roof and surrounding as far as shading and orientation goes. Did SunRun come to your house to do the estimate? You really need to compare apples with apples. Of course, micro inverters do cost more, I am not even trying to start a debate on usefulness of them. you can find lots of video on Youtube. Bottom line, I am very happy with my roof and energy production from it, but you need to do more research yourself.
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Yes, I placed an order on tesla.com, and an tesla advisor follow up and sent me the price estimation, so the price from Tesla is accurate.
Sunrun people also came to my home and the above price is also accurate.
Sorry I did not make it clear, I meant annual energy production estimate not cost. My annual energy production was around 10,000 kWh before placing the deposit but after placing the deposit with Tesla the annual energy production estimate was like 7,300 kWh. Not faulting Tesla, they probably just did a more realistic estimate when I got more serious. However, I think the energy production estimate in the purchase agreement is probably 10% lower than actual, I will find out in a year.
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