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Super Chargers about to get really busy in the near future

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They've done dual head in Europe already, so we know they can handle it.

Tesla can pick and choose the locations in which to add the CCS, and they'd only need to add 4 cables per location to meet the Fed's highway standard.

In Norway they've opened up a bunch of Superchargers, but not the busiest ones, and the PAYG price combined with access via app means that they aren't going to be crowded with CCS cars.

(And man, how I'd love to have them add CCS cables in Maine and the Maritimes :p)
 
While this may be true (the subject line of "Super Chargers about to get really busy in the near future") and may even be likely, it's not really possible to know that this is how this will evolve, or whether it's the result of adding CCS or not.

For one thing, Superchargers might get really busy in the future with or without adding CCS, simply due to increase in Tesla production with Giga Texas and Giga Berlin coming online. Will that increase in production be met with a corresponding increase in Supercharger installations? If you don't think that Tesla is capable of increasing Supercharger capacity to match increased demand, then we should similarly have a concern with this increase of vehicle output. And if you do think that Tesla is able to keep up with demand, why wouldn't they be able to keep up with the additional network demand represented by adding CCS vehicles (which today represents a smaller number of vehicles than what Tesla is currently putting out--although this could change quickly). Personally I think Tesla will do a reasonable job at keeping up with the demand, but yes, it will be a struggle and there will be the occasional pain point until we get over the steep part of the EV S-curve.

Second, we don't know what shape this will take at a Supercharger site. Will it be a limited number of stalls at each site, or the full site? Will it be new sites that are strategically sited so as to offer a Tesla-only backup within a reasonable distance? Something along the lines of putting in a V3 site as a "replacement" to a V2 site, but not taking down the V2 site.

Third, the increased revenue that adding CCS will bring (which will cause the "crowding" you refer to) will provide funds to further expand the network. Tesla has pretty much proven that they are second to none in terms of economic efficiency in building out a fast charging network, and depending on the pricing structure they go with, this could result in an acceleration of the buildout.

I also suspect that Tesla will approach this as they did in Europe with a pilot program to gauge usage and determine how best and where to expand CCS access.
 
I agree it’s impossible to predict, but I still don’t understand how Tesla intends to solve the charging location issue. I suspect they don’t intend to solve it, so all the work they’ve done with faster 250kwh charging, preconditioning batteries when en route, etc to increase throughput will be useless. Because the EVs with charge ports NOT in the driver rear will automatically take up two spots.

If Tesla would simply answer this question I think my anxiety would go down. I still think letting slower charging EVs from crap legacy automakers use the SC network is a stupid idea, but I could at least get by on “they’ll get hosed with much higher prices.”
 
Because the EVs with charge ports NOT in the driver rear will automatically take up two spots.
I suspect (and this is all just speculation on my part) that what we will see is a longer secondary cable, or an EVgo like solution where the Tesla cable will plug into a "box" (which contains the adapter) which then has a longer cable that will reach further. This will undoubtedly restrict the power level that is possible, and I would expect cable management to be a mess and a lot of broken cables/connectors.

The other option is that they only do this for new installs with the charging pedestals mounted to the side like we see at some sites, particularly those with diagonal parking. The downside here is that those sites tend to be pretty awkward to park at.

I would really like to see charging stations of the future be placed on an island, like at gas stations, with a canopy overhead and trash cans and windshield squeegees available. This would be a benefit not just to all the various cars with charge ports in different locations, but also those towing, or with larger vehicles such as the Cybertruck. I can understand why this was not done initially, but it needs to become a more standard setup. Unfortunately this will not work with the prefab units, but maybe they can have a different prefab setup with the four pedestals mounted like gas pumps at an island with the charger located in the middle, and anchor points to support a canopy pillar and trash receptacles at each end.
 
Good News! Elon Musk Will Finally Open Tesla Superchargers To Other Brands | CarBuzz

And this is supposed to be GOOD NEWS??!
Not for Tesla owners!!!
Maybe for stockholders. It's ALL about more dollars for Tesla. It's called accelerate the world to sustainable Tesla profit. Bean counters win again.
First NO charging cord with new electric car (Tesla) and now create long back ups at charging stations. Disgusting destruction of "good will" and exclusivity, which over time will eventually run out. You know where you can shove that CCS adaptor.
 
I’m guessing most non- Tesla’s will use SuperChargers the same way Tesla owners view CSS chargers - another option but not their primary selection. So Tesla outfits it’s SCers with a second CSS plug to meet the fed requirement to get some of that money. Everyone is a winner.
Exactly. I find it comical to think this mythical hoard of non-Tesla EVs are going to overrun the supercharger network.

70% of all EVs sold in the US last year were Teslas.

Another ~10% were Leafs with chademo ports that aren’t gonna be using CCS superchargers in any case.

So some very small fraction of the other 20% of EVs are going to somehow overwhelm the network? Lol, come on.

If you’re worried about this you should lobby Tesla to stop selling cars as they are cranking out supercharging-capable cars at ~4x the rate of the rest combined.
 
Guessing and comical, sure.
If you live in Podunk.

Here's The Main Problem With Tesla's Supercharger Network

Remember to star this article and reread it while you are waiting in line to charge.

I have my own charger at home and at the office, and I fly, so it's not an issue for me, but adding more charging customers is not a solution to this current and growing problem.
Of course you could limit charging times to 10 min after waiting to charge for an hour.


Here's The Main Problem With Tesla's Supercharger Network
 
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Guessing and comical, sure.
If you live in Podunk.

Here's The Main Problem With Tesla's Supercharger Network

Remember to star this article and reread it while you are waiting in line to charge.

I have my own charger at home and at the office, and I fly, so it's not an issue for me, but adding more charging customers is not a solution to this current and growing problem.
Of course you could limit charging times to 10 min after waiting to charge for an hour.


Here's The Main Problem With Tesla's Supercharger Network
Walled garden charging infrastructure is good for nobody. End of story. The sooner it’s eliminated the better off everyone will be.

Clutching our pearls and worrying about all the poors in their Bolts overrunning “our” chargers is an emotional overreaction.

Finally, using Jalopnik as a serious source when it comes to EV infrastructure commentary is indeed a joke.

The scenario that article documents was a literal perfect storm. A big Thanksgiving storm closed down mountain passes on interstate 5, the primary north-west travel corridor in California, on the busiest travel days of the year. This forced everyone West to US 101, a much less traveled route, with predictable results. It was the EV charging equivalent of a hundred year flood. I wonder why they didn’t mention that?

Since that event in 2019, Tesla has installed EIGHTY FOUR additional supercharging pedestals within 30 miles of San Luis Obispo, with another 20 currently under construction.
 
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Tesla right now today is building new supercharger stations faster than I have ever seen. Take a look at supercharge.info

97 new sites under construction in USA alone. 199 new sites are in the permit status and will soon be under construction.

More EV's on the road is a good thing, not a bad thing. Tesla can and will build out the network to match the number of cars sold.
 
Walled garden charging infrastructure is good for nobody. End of story. The sooner it’s eliminated the better off everyone will be.

Clutching our pearls and worrying about all the poors in their Bolts overrunning “our” chargers is an emotional overreaction.

Finally, using Jalopnik as a serious source when it comes to EV infrastructure commentary is indeed a joke.

The scenario that article documents was a literal perfect storm. A big Thanksgiving storm closed down mountain passes on interstate 5, the primary north-west travel corridor in California, on the busiest travel days of the year. This forced everyone West to US 101, a much less traveled route, with predictable results. It was the EV charging equivalent of a hundred year flood. I wonder why they didn’t mention that?

Since that event in 2019, Tesla has installed EIGHTY FOUR additional supercharging pedestals within 30 miles of San Luis Obispo, with another 20 currently under construction.
I am sorry that you are not so well informed on the topic, but you are more than welcome to speculate, guess, pontificate and be comical if you wish. While you do, we will look at some facts related to the matter.

Beginning of Story
It's important to note that early adopters and even current adopters paid for and continue to pay for the development of that worldwide supercharger network. A portion of each car price went into developing the Tesla Supercharger network. Calculating supercharger costs yields a figure between $500 and $1660 per car. I didn't notice any GM, Audi, BMW, VW, Ford or Nissan making any contributions. And now they want to suck off the benefits of someone else's investment. Perhaps opening the network to non-Tesla owners at a significant premium, would be a fair way to compensate Tesla owners for their investment. Being an early adopter and having owned seven Tesla's, I don't appreciate funding and rewarding other auto manufacturers for their resistance to change and for literally being asleep at the wheel. It's like that COVID denier, wanting to go to the front of the line for a vaccination. Tesla Is Slowly Admitting Supercharging Costs Thousands Of Dollars Per Car (NASDAQ:TSLA).

It may seem like superchargers are popping up everywhere, but have you NOT noticed beaucoup more Teslas on the road everywhere? Before speculating, one might want to re-visit the math on the charger to vehicle ratio. It's very simple math, actually. First, let's look at the growth rate of superchargers. Most accounts describe an overall growth rate of 35% over time. But realizing that last year was an exceptional year, with some reports of 50% worldwide growth; so give it the benefit of the doubt.

This map sums up the math. Pretty simple.
1652671600128.png


Supercharger access is like one of the legs of a Tesla table — it’s critical. So, how much the Supercharger network grows is important to many people, and it also increasingly attracts new buyers who see the stark difference between what Tesla has built and what others have "NOT" built — especially people who see Superchargers pop up near them or along some of their favorite travel routes. As the supercharger wait increases, the critical advantage disappears. Bean counters only look at idle chargers ($$$) and are only concerned about company profit. They aren't the ones waiting at the chargers

An important factor that has been overlooked. Giga Tesla alone will be producing 1,000,000 vehicles a year by 2023. The total US Tesla vehicles produced are conservatively projected to be 2.441,799 (a 62.5% increase) and remember FREMONT and AUSTIN vehicles will for the most part stay in the United States, as the rest of the world is now supported by SHANGHAI and BERLIN. This will dramatically increase the number of vehicles using superchargers in the US.

1652672607572.png


Increasing Tesla Superchargers by the classic 35% a yearv or even 50% a year is not going to come close to supporting the number of Tesla's on the road, let alone adding non-Tesla vehicles.

"More EV's on the road is a good thing, not a bad thing. Tesla can and will build out the network to match the number of cars sold."

Of course, more EVs on the road is a good thing, but not without the infrastructure to support it. Would having more EVs on the road in the Sahara be a good thing? And if you think Tesla has it covered, let me tell you about the CYBRTRK in my driveway, which has been fully autonomous since 2018. The Semi, the Roadster, the Compact.....don't even go there. Don't be that naive.

And don't count on the government to cover it. The U.S. government owns about 1,100 charging stations. It may need more than 100,000 charging stations to support widespread EV use in the next decade, according to testimony from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) on Tuesday.

The US government has just 1% of the EV chargers it needs​

And don't forget about the condo and apartment dwellers who all want a new Tesla. Did you read the post about three people constantly fighting for one slow charger? Then driving 30 minutes to get to a supercharger in the opposite direction of his work. Geez.

I apologize for the lengthy response, but sometimes facts are just that way.
Sometimes facts can be brutal. But it's what you have left when you strip out the emotion, the speculation, and the comics.

And the truth has already arrived.
1652674044761.png


A sign of the times.
Tesla has been showing the number of stalls currently available on the Nav screen for a few years. Now, if a Supercharger is full, drivers are shown a grey clock icon on the pin. When you touch the pin it will display short, medium or long wait for that location.

Perhaps repairing those chargers out of service would help.

Strain
Plan your travel during off-peak hours.

Wishing you happy and uneventful charging. Please avoid the fights that have broken out when someone attempts to skip the line.

Of course, for those problem deniers, this is always this option.

1652675423403.png
 
<Argument that starts with thinking I'm special and owed something because I bought lots of Teslas, followed by a bunch of data supporting the obvious conclusion that the US needs ubiquitous, OPEN charging standards to support the entire fleet of EVs, not proprietary walled-garden infrastructure for a single manufacturer>

Other than thinking you're somehow entitled to a life-long private charging network as an "early adopter", I'm glad we agree. We need more open, standardized charging stations that anyone can use if we're going to "accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy" (hmm, where I have I heard that before?).
 
Ah, so delighted to see your change of mind. Sometimes facts will do that.
That's why drug companies and corporations have proprietary rights. It's shockingly called "business".
"Accelerate the world's transition to sustainable Tesla profit."
 
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It's important to note that early adopters and even current adopters paid for and continue to pay for the development of that worldwide supercharger network. A portion of each car price went into developing the Tesla Supercharger network.
So I take it you are also against Tesla opening more Gigafactories as they are pumping out more and more Teslas (as you pointed out) that are clogging up "your" Supercharger network.
 
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So I take it you are also against Tesla opening more Gigafactories as they are pumping out more and more Teslas (as you pointed out) that are clogging up "your" Supercharger network.
Not much logic in that. Against TESLA, hell no. Remember, I was there at the beginning.

The Supercharger network is far more YOURS than it is mine. I RARELY, if ever charge at a Supercharger, even though I helped pay for it a long time ago, and if I do use it, it is with the 2014 Model S and I charge FREE (you know, one of those early adopter bennies, like free Autopilot +, and free garage door opener and free Premium sound and maps, free new motor, free new battery, and updates, and MCU, ALL FREE FOR LIFE. I'm sorry). Your Model 3 paid for the Supercharger when you bought it and it continues to pay for it every time you use it. Own it, it's yours. Nothing to be ashamed of. And now you are actually paying for me to use it for FREE, but that fits with your model of opening it up to everybody. I thank you for your generosity and for making my point so clear. I'm just looking out for ya, bud.

And really would you want strangers pulling up in your drive to plug into your home charger? I think not unless of course, you could make a BIG profit. Ah. Now we get to the bottom of the issue. It's ok to give up your place in line at the Supercharger, as long as Tesla is going to make a big profit because you are convinced that Tesla is going to share that profit with you and give you a big break on the price of your new Tesla. Yeah, right.

And did you know you are paying more now for each visit to the Supercharger?

Note: This morning's news.
Tesla owners from California have reported that the Supercharging cost has inflated from $0.48 per kWh to $0.58 per kWh during peak hours.
Tesla owners in California feel uneasy as Supercharging costs are constantly on the rise.
You might want to read this post. Why isn't everyone as upset about the Supercharger increase as I am?

Now, I hear your line of thinking, it's all about converting the world to sustainable energy. Of course, all of the profit from opening the chargers, is going to come back to you, right? In the form of reduced cost for Tesla charging. I'm in FL and I have a nice piece of moist property for sale too. But maybe it's worth it for the warm feeling of knowing that you are saving the planet. It started out as a way to convert the world to sustainable energy, but profit, profit, profit reared its ugly head and is rapidly paralleling, if not passing that goal. Of course, profit to build more cars and get there quicker. And without Elon's phenomenal idea, we wouldn't be where we are today, with almost every major car maker going to EVs. Bravo and kudos.

So you see, I should be excited because opening the Superchargers to all EVs means great profit for my Tesla stock that I bought for $200 a share. (I know, there is that pesky early adopter crap again. I'm sorry. I really swallowed the pill.) And I am overly excited about TESLA making and selling as many vehicles as possible. When GIGA TEXAs is at full throttle they will make more vehicles in a year than GM and FORD combined, all at one factory.

And isn't it amazing that TESLA has opened $4 Billion (that's $4,000,000,000) worth of factories in the last 18 months and has 0 (ZERO, NADA) debt on the last quarter's balance sheets? Bravo. Excited. Hell yes. In fact, I just bought some more TESLA stock this morning (actually this evening, as I am in Thailand at present). Excited. Hell yeah, Model YP arrives next week.

There is a way for you also to enjoy some of that profit and also support the goal of rocketing to more sustainable energy. Buy some stock or buy more.
Soon it will cost less than a visit to the Supercharger! Hey, maybe they could sell the stock at the Supercharger, while you wait.
 
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Note: This morning's news.
Tesla owners from California have reported that the Supercharging cost has inflated from $0.48 per kWh to $0.58 per kWh during peak hours.
It's more than just California... I just supercharged a little while ago at the same two superchargers that I supercharged at last week... It used to be 37 cents /kWh peak and 18 cents / kWh off-peak, up here. Now it's 44 cents / kWh peak and 21 cents / kWh off-peak.
 
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The logic is this:

You stated:
It's important to note that early adopters and even current adopters paid for and continue to pay for the development of that worldwide supercharger network.
Now you do go on to state that part of my vehicle purchase price funded the development of the Supercharger network and you cited a Seeking Alpha article from 2016 (in the era of free Supercharging) that came up with the $500-1660 per car figure (at least I think that's where you got that). Forget about the questionable math calisthenics the SA authors go through to justify their assertions that TSLA is fundamentally worthless, the fact that Supercharger costs in 2016 are much different than they are today, the fact that those figures assume no direct revenue from Supercharger usage, and the common belief that Tesla explicitly built pre-paid Supercharging into their cost model for their vehicles.

Now there may be a grain of truth in the fact that part of the purchase price of my vehicle did effectively fund construction of a new Supercharger site (although I don't think it's anywhere near the quoted figures from 2016 if anything), and it seems like you actually believe this is the case, so perhaps you do have different reasons for opposing this opening, but the common opposition, especially among the early adopters, is that because they were on the ball and got in early, that somehow it is their right to exclusive access to the Supercharger network, and that newcomers that clog up "their" network are a problem. The point I am making (and the logic) is that Tesla themselves is responsible for the majority of new vehicles that will be using Superchargers (at least in the US) so if you want to complain about Superchargers becoming more crowded, you need to blame Tesla itself for building more cars than they have the capacity for at Supercharger sites (if in fact that ends up being the case).

Now okay, it seems like your objection is that the other auto manufacturers didn't fund the Supercharger network that all Tesla owners paid for when they bought their car. Again, I question the 2016 article that led you to this belief. My understanding is that the Supercharger network itself runs at cost, meaning the expansion is funded by the revenue the network earns. I can't claim that I am right any more than you can claim I am wrong, unless you are in the accounting department at Tesla. Probably the truth is that yes, a bit of the construction costs were covered by vehicle sales revenue, but that doesn't necessarily grant me exclusive access to the network either. If Tesla can find additional revenue streams from owners of other makes of vehicles (note that it's not the other vehicle manufacturers themselves that directly benefit), and that can fund additional expansion, then why should it matter to me if the person next to me at a Supercharger pulls up in a VW or a Tesla.
 
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I've not heard anything new. Let's make it remarkably simple.

then why should it matter to me if the person next to me at a Supercharger pulls up in a VW or a Tesla. (Do you mean in front of me in line....)

It doesn't matter to me, as I said, I rarely, if ever, use Superchargers, but it should matter to frequent Tesla Supercharger users.

Here is why it should matter to the current Tesla Supercharger User
It's simple math.

Tesla Updates Supercharger Map, 35% Growth In 2021​

Meanwhile, deliveries grew by 87% during the same period.​


And Tesla itself will be adding another 1.5 million vehicles to that network next year alone.

1652827600920.png


It's not about exclusivity, it's about business principles and customer service and yes, Tesla makes the cars that use the Superchargers and yes, Tesla owners are underserved. Poor business planning and poor customer service in the name of a revenue stream. A system that is already approaching its breaking point, and we know it's headed for more trouble, and the solution is to add more users?? That's the simple logic of it.

I have 100 computer users on my network and it is really beginning to run slowly and the units are wearing out so rapidly (15% are down) and customers are waiting to access the network. I have a genius consultant who can help me solve my problem. He says, "Simple, add another 50 users from down the street." Great profits.

If you owned and operated an eating establishment that was full to legal capacity and a tour bus pulled up for lunch. And as the owner, you ask your dedicated customers to vacate and make room for the patrons on the bus to eat lunch so you can make more money, does that make sense? NO. The appropriate response is, "I am so sorry, we are full to capacity right now, could you please head down to Electrify America just around the corner where they have plenty of juice, and by the way we don't even currently take your currency here (CCS something). And, BTW, who pays for converting 30,000 charging stations to CCS??

If you operated a nightclub that had a capacity of 200 people filled with your regular customer base (advertised weekly), and you let in an additional 100 customers from the town down the road, you don't think that would begin to rob from the customer experience you provide to your base? I know...call the fire marshall. Well, as the Supercharger waiting lines get longer and longer, local authorities are going to be ticketing owners for blocking traffic.

And its amazing that I don't note Tesla advertising having to wait in line to use their Supercharging network. What do they advertise?? It's EASY!

Range Go Anywhere
A Tesla is fully electric, so you never need to visit a gas station again. If you charge overnight at home, you can wake up to a full battery every morning. And when you’re on the road, it’s easy to plug in along the way with the Tesla charging network.


Or for those more optimistic than I, let's just let the government solve the problem. Building the electric-vehicle charging infrastructure America needs
If transportation electrification is to proceed at a pace commensurate with meeting the challenge of climate change, we must ensure that recharging an EV at a public charger is no more expensive than refueling a conventional vehicle. Getting there will require particular attention to the cost of every element involved in charging infrastructure and squeezing out costs wherever possible. You realize that with only a couple more rate raises from Tesla we will be at the comparable fuel rate.

So you see, it's not about exclusivity or arrogance or early adopters, (although in some cases maybe it should be, remember the CUSTOMER FOR LIFE PLATEs), but it is simply about over-promised, underbuilt and underserved, something we in the Tesla community have come to be well aware of.

To steal an old Texas saying, "Before you open the dance floor to the world, first have enough room on the dance floor and definitely remember to dance with the one who brung ya." That is known as good business practice, customer service, common sense and what produces CUSTOMERS FOR LIFE.
 
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