Super Cruise and Ultra Cruise monthly payments

[P3dStealth]

Just thought I'd bring this up. Seems GM is going to have a really cheap monthly subscription for their version of Autopilot and FSD. There are a lot of benefits to the subscription version. Seems like gm has the right idea. I am surprised at how cheap they went with it though.

CarScoops: Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions.
Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions | Carscoops

 

[diplomat33]

Just thought I'd bring this up. Seems GM is going to have a really cheap monthly subscription for their version of Autopilot and FSD. There are a lot of benefits to the subscription version. Seems like gm has the right idea. I am surprised at how cheap they went with it though.

CarScoops: Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions.
Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions | Carscoops

Nice!

 

[jjrandorin]

That article doesnt mention any "purchase forever" price, which means they want everyone to pay $25 a month for their entire ownership period of the vehicle.

 

[diplomat33]

That article doesnt mention any "purchase forever" price, which means they want everyone to pay $25 a month for their entire ownership period of the vehicle.

Tesla is also planning a monthly subscription for FSD. It will be interesting to see how it compares to GM.

 

[P3dStealth]

That article doesnt mention any "purchase forever" price, which means they want everyone to pay $25 a month for their entire ownership period of the vehicle.

Yea but you would have to own the car and pay $25 for 27 years before it costing what Tesla charges

You could also in theory only pay for a month or 6 when you wanted it. You would also not be at a loss if you wreck the car.

I don't see a benefit to a forever price unless it starts following my Tesla account or it's cheaper.

 

[MP3Mike]

CarScoops: Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions.
Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions | Carscoops

Technically Super Cruise is only $15/month. But it requires the $10/month OnStar/connectivity package.

 

[diplomat33]

Just thought I'd bring this up. Seems GM is going to have a really cheap monthly subscription for their version of Autopilot and FSD. There are a lot of benefits to the subscription version. Seems like gm has the right idea. I am surprised at how cheap they went with it though.

CarScoops: Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions.
Cadillac Owners To Pay Up To $25 Per Month To Keep Super Cruise Functions | Carscoops

Interesting that Ultra Cruise will be hands-free driving on city streets.

 

[P3dStealth]

Interesting that Ultra Cruise will be hands-free driving on city streets.

It would be funny if they release that before tesla. GM seems to be doing a lot of interesting things lately. They didnt get much attention for it though.

 

[P3dStealth]

Technically Super Cruise is only $15/month. But it requires the $10/month OnStar/connectivity package.

You are right. I didn't realize this. It's even cheaper than I thought.

 

[diplomat33]

It would be funny if they release that before tesla. GM seems to be doing a lot of interesting things lately. They didnt get much attention for it though.

Yes. We should not forget that GM owns Cruise which has pretty good full self-driving in San Francisco. So if GM starts putting some of that FSD from Cruise into their consumer cars, it could be really good stuff.

Also, GM releases stuff as a "full system" rather than incremental features like Tesla does. So we don't hear anything from GM for a few years and then suddenly we get Super Cruise. So that kinda gives us the impression that GM is behind until they come out with their new system. Whereas, Tesla is constantly releasing new stuff every week and every month which gives a great sense of Tesla's progress.

There are a lot of missing details about Ultra Cruise. Will it be L2, L3 or L4? Will it just be cruising on a city street similar to Supercruise or will be able to respond to traffic lights and make turns at intersections?

This is another reason why I say that the clock is ticking for Tesla to achieve FSD. Other companies are not standing still. If Tesla takes too long to deliver "feature complete" or they deliver features that require a lot of supervision, then other companies like GM will start delivering better stuff. If GM actually releases a hands-free system that can respond to traffic lights and make turns at intersections on city streets that would beat Tesla, IMO.

 

[tmp131]

Yea but you would have to own the car and pay $25 for 27 years before it costing what Tesla charges

You could also in theory only pay for a month or 6 when you wanted it. You would also not be at a loss if you wreck the car.

I don't see a benefit to a forever price unless it starts following my Tesla account or it's cheaper.

Paying up front has “opportunity cost” bc that upfront money could be used to invest in something like TSLA or the market index. So if cruise is equal or better than Tesla FSD (I am unsure, but time will tell), then the total cost including opportunity cost is a lot higher than just $8000.

 

[EinSV]

Yea but you would have to own the car and pay $25 for 27 years before it costing what Tesla charges

That's not correct. Autopilot comes standard and is included in the price of a Tesla -- no extra charge.

 

[P3dStealth]

That's not correct. Autopilot comes standard and is included in the price of a Tesla -- no extra charge.

Kind of true kind of not. You can still order the off the menu tesla without autopilot. Tesla just rolled the price into the cars one day and said it's standard.

GM supercruise is a little different than autopilot in that it is hands free. You don't touch the wheel. What is interesting is that GM ultra cruise will be able to turn on city streets and still hands free. I doubt we see any of this until 2022 though.

I have used supercruise and it's pretty good. People will hate on me but tesla should ditch the hold the wheel system and go to an eye tracking system like GM. It's safer and the experience is better.

 

[EinSV]

Kind of true kind of not. You can still order the off the menu tesla without autopilot. Tesla just rolled the price into the cars one day and said it's standard.

Not true for the vast majority of Tesla customers.

Model S (all versions)
Model X (all versions)
Model Y (all versions)
Model 3 LR and P

All come standard with Autopilot. There is no "off menu" option to purchase without Autopilot to my knowledge.

You do have the option to order an off menu Model 3 SR but it has less range and fewer options than a Model 3 SR+. In any case I would guess that less than 1% of new Tesla owners buy the off-menu SR without AP.

GM supercruise is a little different than autopilot in that it is hands free. You don't touch the wheel. What is interesting is that GM ultra cruise will be able to turn on city streets and still hands free. I doubt we see any of this until 2022 though.

I have used supercruise and it's pretty good. People will hate on me but tesla should ditch the hold the wheel system and go to an eye tracking system like GM. It's safer and the experience is better.

As you know, Supercruise is much more restricted than Autopilot and can only be used on specified freeways. While the map is growing Supercruise is nowhere near as versatile as Autopilot.

As for safety, if Supercruise were really safer than Autopilot I'm sure GM would release accident data for it and be heavily promoting that data to its customers. As far as I know that hasn't happened, even though it should be easy for Supercruise to have a lower accident rate given all the restrictions on its use.

Of course it is possible that customers use Supercruise so rarely that GM doesn't have solid safety data yet. On its website GM says there are "over 5,000,000" miles on Supercruise. Making a WAG that 5,000 cars have Supercruise (not sure what the real number is), that's only 1000 miles per car.

Super Cruise - Hands Free Driving | Cadillac Ownership

For comparison, Tesla reported only one accident on Autopilot per 4.53 million miles in its most recent vehicle safety report. Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

The apparent lack of use/interest in Supercruise could explain why GM is offering a relatively cheap monthly rate.

 

[P3dStealth]

I said the eye tracking system is safer not that supercruise is safer.

Why is eye tracking safer? Because people can keep a hand on the wheel of a Tesla and sleep or buy a weight on eBay or put a water bottle on the wheel. Yea I am not backed by stats but my hand on the wheel doesn't mean my eyes are on the road. It's obviously the better system at monitoring the driver's alertness. The Tesla is just monitoring your wheel.

The off the menu tesla is the one without autopilot. I said that and you just agreed. I get that people tend to buy the other models. Tesla did roll the cost into the other models. The price went up when they made it standard if remember right. There are people without autopilot still from when it was an option. I think it's a $3000 upgrade for them now.

There is a lack of interest in supercruise and anything not tesla you are correct about that.

 

[EinSV]

I said the eye tracking system is safer not that supercruise is safer.

Why is eye tracking safer? Because people can keep a hand on the wheel of a Tesla and sleep or buy a weight on eBay or put a water bottle on the wheel. Yea I am not backed by stats but my hand on the wheel doesn't mean my eyes are on the road. It's obviously the better system at monitoring the driver's alertness. The Tesla is just monitoring your wheel.

The off the menu tesla is the one without autopilot. I said that and you just agreed. I get that people tend to buy the other models. Tesla did roll the cost into the other models. The price went up when they made it standard if remember right. There are people without autopilot still from when it was an option. I think it's a $3000 upgrade for them now.

There is a lack of interest in supercruise and anything not tesla you are correct about that.

It's one thing to have tech that works in the lab, it's another thing to have it working reliably at scale, without detracting from the overall user experience. If Tesla believed that eye-tracking software was safer, more reliable and offered a better user experience they would have begun incorporating it on newer vehicles by now (they've never been shy about replacing old tech with new).

Also, I don't understand the double standard where we require added safety on systems that are already making driving safer. If eye tracking software does prevent distracted driving accidents, why not require it on the cars that are most dangerous when the driver is distracted -- i.e., cars that don't have effective Level 2 ADAS systems?

In "regular" cars, a distracted driver is at a much higher risk of causing an accident, whereas Autopilot will prevent the vast majority of distracted driver accidents. Distracted driving in "regular" cars is a huge problem yet no one seems to care about the carnage on the roads from distracted drivers behind the wheels of cars that lack first rate accident avoidance technology.

 

[Daniel in SD]

In "regular" cars, a distracted driver is at a much higher risk of causing an accident, whereas Autopilot will prevent the vast majority of distracted driver accidents. Distracted driving in "regular" cars is a huge problem yet no one seems to care about the carnage on the roads from distracted drivers behind the wheels of cars that lack first rate accident avoidance technology.

It's quite possible that driver attention monitoring will be required for "regular cars" in the future. Subaru has had a camera based system for a couple years.

I think a per mile subscription system will make sense once FSD is autonomous since Tesla will presumably be liable for at-fault accidents while the system is "driving". I don't like the idea of subscriptions for driver assist features but Tesla would certainly get a few bucks out of me for a beta FSD rental. Though I don't have HW3 so I guess that wouldn't work.

 

[artx55]

So if Tesla offered FSD for around the same... FSD is currently $10,600 CAD + 13% tax = $11,978 CAD. $25 USD = about $33 CAD. 11,978 / 33 = 362.96 (months) / 12 = 30.24 (years).

FSD 'forever' price wouldn't make sense at all, especially given that FSD stays with the car and not your account. Even if you factor in Tesla in-car internet as a prerequisite ($15.80 CAD taxes in), that still gives you 11,978 / 48.8 = 245.45 (months) / 12 = 20.45 (years) worth of FSD. Given most cars hit their *sugar*-the-bed point more consistently after their 10 years point, subscription method is a no-brainer.

Also keep in mind that nothing has been explicitly noted that you have to keep the subscription all the time. Use it for just the months you need or if they force you to take a minimum amount of months at a time (3 months, 6 months), you're still ahead of the curve.

EDIT: Pre-coffee spelling

 

[P3dStealth]

It's one thing to have tech that works in the lab, it's another thing to have it working reliably at scale, without detracting from the overall user experience. If Tesla believed that eye-tracking software was safer, more reliable and offered a better user experience they would have begun incorporating it on newer vehicles by now (they've never been shy about replacing old tech with new).

Also, I don't understand the double standard where we require added safety on systems that are already making driving safer. If eye tracking software does prevent distracted driving accidents, why not require it on the cars that are most dangerous when the driver is distracted -- i.e., cars that don't have effective Level 2 ADAS systems?

In "regular" cars, a distracted driver is at a much higher risk of causing an accident, whereas Autopilot will prevent the vast majority of distracted driver accidents. Distracted driving in "regular" cars is a huge problem yet no one seems to care about the carnage on the roads from distracted drivers behind the wheels of cars that lack first rate accident avoidance technology.

They are starting to require the eye tracking systems and alertness systems on all vehicles 2022. Also the idea of tesla autopilot making vehicles safer is debatable.


Teslas Aren’t Safer On Autopilot, So Researchers Calling For Driver Monitoring May Be Right

https://techxplore.com/news/2020-06-countries-automated.html

EU to require speed limiters, driver monitors in new cars from 2022 - Roadshow

This is just interesting
MIT Advanced Vehicle Technology Study: Large-Scale Naturalistic Driving Study of Driver Behavior and Interaction With Automation

 

[ElectricIAC]

That article doesnt mention any "purchase forever" price, which means they want everyone to pay $25 a month for their entire ownership period of the vehicle.

Let’s be real. How long does anyone actually keep a Cadillac anymore? This ain’t grandma’s Sunday grocery getter.